Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

They have in the past Bob, we have seen them being called Idiots / Right wing racists, The baying Labour Mob are not a bunch to allow other views on here, Just look at the Brexit discussions for proof

I agree with the overall point: Labour can't win casual Tory voters if they reject anyone who has voted Tory and people should be allowed to express themselves and not get abused for that. However...

Tory voters aren't an endangered species - they're literally the majority of the written press, a good chunk of social media press, the majority of voters etc. etc.

Tory policies cause people to need foodbanks. People get emotional because of Tory policies that have attacked minorities and created a wealth divide which has literally damaged people's lives. In comparison, your life has not really been damaged by a comment on here.

A greater level of respect should be shown to each other, but also that needs to come from the powerful to those without power as well.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Thought this summed it up quite well.

“Personally, I think Labour’s perennial problem is that a lot of people don’t actually want a fairer society, they want a society that’s unfair on other people, not them”.

https://twitter.com/paulbernaluk/status/1390549022369267717?s=21

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

They've combined that with a creeping authoritarian, regressive culture which attacks opposition in any form in a way that would make Trump or Orban (Hungary) proud.

bollocks

[blue matt]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

You'd have to add that there is evidence that "£350 million a week for the NHS" was a pivotal slogan that caused people to vote one way despite i) Boris never wanting to stand next to the slogan because he knew it was rubbish and ii) it was always rubbish.

Politics isn't the 90's anymore and people aren't blindly loyal to one party but that doesn't necessarily mean their research produces well-informed votes. They just have more information now.

Im not sure many truly thought that the NHS would get £350 Mill extra a week ( I dont know anyone who did anyway ), it did serve a purpose of getting people thinking about what money was going into the EU pot and where else it could be spent, so in that case it was job done

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Well, that bus slogan is well and truly in the past now, so how do you explain the millions of voters that have deserted Labour for Conservative in the last few years. No doubt you will find some other pathetic excuse to cast doubt upon the sanity of anyone who doesn't think or vote like you.

the right wing of the tory party stoked up the inherent racism and xenophobia of the white working class

[dml1954]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Blaming Labour solely for what happened in 2008 is just as bonkers as blaming the what's in it for me party for the origin of the pandemic. If the Labour party was responsible for 2008 in any way it was for following deregulatory policies even more enthusiastically than the Thatcher/Major Governments did - the financial crash was down to failures of capitalism and libertarianism as bankers took advantage of freedoms caused by a worldwide roll back of regulation.

Both Conservatives and Labour were united on what to do following the financial crash and I've never heard any tories saying that the y would have not brought in the policies Brown followed that caused the crash because they were were too left wing - they were right of centre policies which caused what happened in 2008.

Coming up to date, goats said I would be upset today because of what's happening so far in the elections because Labour are doing poorly. While I'd say it's disappointing because I've nearly always voted Labour in my life, the truth is that, increasingly, my politics are first and foremost anti Conservative and I haven't voted Labour with any enthusiasm in ages.

In the so called Tory landslide of 2019, there were, rounding down, 47 million people eligible to vote, 14 million, rounding up, of which voted Conservative. Therefore, out of eligible voters, more than two thirds did not vote Conservative. Of course, many of them would have been apathetic tories who were sure their party was going to win and there would have been Conservatives who would not have been able to vote for whatever reason. However, it's clearly true that far more people who had the right to vote did not feel they could vote Conservative than those who did.

With our voting system, that always happens no matter who wins, but, as has been remarked already, with the main opposition party falling into the normal left v right infighting which some in it appear to think is the main reason for its existence, I believe there are an awful lot of people like me, who long for an electable and coherent alternative to the Conservatives that has a realistic chance of winning.

The Labour party became an irrelevance in Scotland and still don't seem to have realised it yet and it's heading towards the same situation in the UK unless it realises that the real enemy are the lot who have formed the Government for almost thirty of the last forty years - if they cannot do that and prefer to continue rowing amongst themselves, then they're not worth saying.

And almost 70% didn't vote Labour in 2019.

[lardy]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Yes im sure they do, which just cements my point

But you said a political party can't survive like that for long, yet the Tories have had power for about 75% of the last four decades.

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

that sounds like thatcher

You realise the benefits system provided for more proportionally under the tories than it did under Blair and brown ?

sounds like you agree that the Tories care more for wealth redistribution than Labour.

[dml1954]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

the right wing of the tory party stoked up the inherent racism and xenophobia of the white working class

You failed to mention the word Proletariat in your quote from the Communist manual.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

They have in the past Bob, we have seen them being called Idiots / Right wing racists, The baying Labour Mob are not a bunch to allow other views on here, Just look at the Brexit discussions for proof

I must have blinked and missed the bit where tory voters explained why they vote like they do and as for a "baying Labour mob", they're like a bunch of pussycats on here compared to some others sections of social media. If you want to talk "baying mobs", have a look every now and then at the comments section of the Daily Mail, Daily Express or Sun or there's always the occasional headline with those three as well.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

just one point Bob, Welsh Labour have been in power for over 20 years, not a decade. You're quite right we need a change as living standards in Wales have fallen much further behind the rest of the UK.

I'm sure that's what you meant, because taking party politics out of it, what you say about the Tories in the UK context most definitely applies to Welsh Labour, who really are bereft of any ideas on how to make Wales a better place.

The tories have been in power the vast majority of the last 100 years in the UK

They have made huge feck ups and have had loads of times to sort it out

Yet welsh Labour are inept after 22 years ?

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The same people who in 2017 achieved the greatest increase in vote share since 1945 - and were a few thousand votes in key seats off winning power?

The majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party (fully backed by the Tory press and the Guardian) have been at war with the majority of the membership since they had the audacity to elect Corbyn in 2015 and again in 2016 after the Chicken Coup.

this isn't East Germany, the electorate decide the government, not the party

Labour had popular policies in 2017, and they hadn't changed too much by 2019 - except for the incoherent position on Brexit.

yet they are in freefall. not so popular after all

Corbyn was a poor party manager (probably an impossible job given what was ranged against him) and avoided confrontation too much, but as a campaigner and inspiration to hundreds of thousands of activists he had qualities that Starmer can only dream about. Starmer has trashed his 10 election pledges, backed or abstained on Tory legislation, seen about 60,000 members resign and gagged (with suspensions) about 200 constituency parties.

you need millions of votes to win an election, not hundreds of thousands. What good is it appealing to the rank and file if you can't appeal to the masses.

The demoralisation of Labour under an ineffective and right-leaning Starmer, combined with the Vaccine Bounce, the continuing effects of Brexit (and a bit of gunboat diplomacy on the day before the election) is more than enough to see Labour hammered and the Tories seeing their corruption and incompetence ignored or even celebrated.

No surprise but totally depressing!

it is up to the Labour party to step up to the plate. At the present time, Labour are rather bereft of ideas

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

You failed to mention the word Proletariat in your quote from the Communist manual.

Huge ingrained racist views in the white working class , especially in the North of England

Europe, the tories banging the immigration drum ......its at its highest by the way .....and along they trot

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

sounds like you agree that the Tories care more for wealth redistribution than Labour.

no its just that thatcher brought Mass unemployment so had to pay for dole money

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

But you said a political party can't survive like that for long, yet the Tories have had power for about 75% of the last four decades.

Tory votes ebb and flow. The fact is the UK is predominantly centre right in its politics. There is little point in having a left wing party, as the UK is always won in the centre ground. We've seen repeatedly what happens when Labour promote a socialist agenda - the party is thumped at the ballot box. The best ever result for Labour was Blair's social democratic party. you tell this to the Corbyn acolytes, and it falls on deaf ears.