Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

We're 11 years into a Tory government but somehow it's seen as completely separate to what came before (spoiler alert: in some ways it is and in some big ways it's not) whereas Labour is seen as either extension of Blair by those who don't like Blair or an extension of Corbyn by those who don't like Corbyn.

That's a massive issue for Labour and a massive win for Tories.

[chris lee]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

No. since 2010 the Tory government has collected more in taxes as a percentage of GDP than any other before it. It really is a myth that the Tories are the party of low taxes. Don't be fooled by headline rates.


marvellous, lets ignore the fact immigration is actually good for the UK

perhaps you can have a word with the DWP and HMRC as they haven't read the memo. There is more bureaucracy for the self-employed than ever before.

possibly. The jury is out


agreed


whilst this is a good thing, i can't see why we cannot fund education so everyone has an Eton/Harrow type of education paid for by the state.


perception doesn't mean fact. This Tory government have clamped down on a lot of our digital freedoms

I am not saying I agree or support all the above talking points, but I am trying to display a general theme, that surely you can see why a local business man or self-employed builder who can afford to send their kids to a private school would vote conservative, without necessarily being an evil person.

[/QUOTE]

I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.

The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Do some reading, take a look who has defeated fascism throughout the centuries, then ask yourself why racism and fascism rises in popularity amongst white, disengaged working class people.

Never mind the history books and stories of the battle of cable street

Who gave the English defence league a kicking in Cardiff?

It was middle class students with a helping hand from a few hundred docks lads

I didn't see mobs of white working class people out that day from the valleys and estates of Cardiff to tackle the fascists

You are living in the clouds and in a utopia

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.

The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.

I agree.

you can have conservative values and vote for the Tories, it does not make you a bad person, you simply believe the best way for the nation to succeed overall is smaller government and more personal responsibility. Those who support Labour believe in a larger government and more collective responsibility. there is no right or wrong way, and both approaches have their merits and drawbacks.

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.

The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.

What part of Boris Johnson's government is small or fiscally responsible? In past couple of months they've talked about interfering into private institutions like football clubs and pubs as well as public funded ones like National Trust and Channel 4 and they literally won an election on reducing size of the economy. This is not a (small c) conservative government and proper conservative voters are being put off and replaced by new voters.

[Tuerto]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Never mind the history books and stories of the battle of cable street

Who gave the English defence league a kicking in Cardiff?

It was middle class students with a helping hand from a few hundred docks lads

I didn't see mobs of white working class people out that day from the valleys and estates of Cardiff to tackle the fascists

You are living in the clouds and in a utopia

Sludge in Anecdotes shocker! Don't suppose I can argue with that when every inch of history tells us that the workers of the world have defeated Fascism time after time. You really need to think before you answer.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

We're 11 years into a Tory government but somehow it's seen as completely separate to what came before (spoiler alert: in some ways it is and in some big ways it's not) whereas Labour is seen as either extension of Blair by those who don't like Blair or an extension of Corbyn by those who don't like Corbyn.

That's a massive issue for Labour and a massive win for Tories.

I can't say whether this is definitely true or not, but I would say that it's believable - on the radio this morning someone was saying that they showed a sample of voters some of the Labour parties policies at the last election and they got an almost unanimously positive response, but that changed drastically when it was revealed Corbyn's Labour party that was behind the proposals.

[Vindec]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

....................... on the radio this morning someone was saying that they showed a sample of voters some of the Labour parties policies at the last election and they got an almost unanimously positive response

Probably true. But the problem is that nobody believed Labour could deliver them.

[life on mars]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I think I need to nail this into your head

I want a moderate , left of centre alternative to the tories

Tony Blair type politics then .

Labour made a huge error rejecting all his policies and changes

They should have gone for David Miliband and they'd be in a better place now , probably still in Europe as he would have shown more appetite for the remain campaign than Corbyn , and beat Cameron and May

[xsnaggle]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The bus said £350m a week not £350m a year.

Well spotted

[goats]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Tony Blair type politics then .

Labour made a huge error rejecting all his policies and changes

They should have gone for David Miliband and they'd be in a better place now , probably still in Europe as he would have shown more appetite for the remain campaign than Corbyn , and beat Cameron and May

Probably right there, it sucks there’s such a limited choice. We should have more than two parties to choose from and certain policy should be set in stone so not messed with every 4 years etc...health, schools etc..

[cardiff55]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I voted for Starmer in the leadership election, but I wish i hadn't now. Labour have to aim at Boris as PM , Rees-Mogg, Patel and the others and still cock it up. But I will stay loyal to my beliefs.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The Tories introduced Austerity which massively impacted the working class. We’ve got the worst State Pensions in Europe and are made to work longer. They cut police, shut fire stations and cut fire fighters. Underfunded the NHS/local services, refuse to give health care workers the pay rise they so deserve. Funnelled billions of pounds into the pockets of their donors. The pandemic death toll has been horrific and front line staff weren’t given the PPE they needed which resulted in 300 plus of them dying. And as for that pathetic big lump of lard Johnson who whilst his wife was having treatment for cancer was shagging his mistress in the marital home and who won’t even admit how many kids he has. The corruption he’s so obviously involved with, I could go on... I’ve tried to get my head around why anyone would still vote for them, I really have I just don’t get it.

[jon1959]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Labour lost control of Sheffield Council - lost 5 seats to Greens and 3 to LibDems.

Tories have their first council seat in 20 years (they were extinct before yesterday, and lost their last MP in 1997).

UKIP/Brexit collapse has helped Tories and LibDems; left disillusionment with Starmer's Labour has helped the Greens.

Surely time for Corbyn to step down as ex Labour Leader and accept full responsibility?

[City123]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Labour lost control of Sheffield Council - lost 5 seats to Greens and 3 to LibDems.

Tories have their first council seat in 20 years (they were extinct before yesterday, and lost their last MP in 1997).

UKIP/Brexit collapse has helped Tories and LibDems; left disillusionment with Starmer's Labour has helped the Greens.

Surely time for Corbyn to step down as ex Labour Leader and accept full responsibility?