Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[dml1954]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.

There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.

Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.

People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Just for the record, Tories have made noises that they're taking a massive step towards proposals set out by Corbyn and McDonnell because they were extremely popular policies and this should be evidence enough that leftwing politics isn't dead. (We haven't seen whether these are implemented properly yet and not doubt it's Labour's fault if it's not implemented well).

They've combined that with a creeping authoritarian, regressive culture which attacks opposition in any form in a way that would make Trump or Orban (Hungary) proud.

I had a conversation yesterday with a conservative voter (small c) who said they'd never vote Tory again because of what they're currently doing economically and culturally. We're not hearing that yet because i) how popular this political position is (economically centre-left, culturally right, authoritarian) and ii) Tories are still a party friendly to billionaire's.

[Tuerto]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.

You think it's that simple? Fair enough. A question for you- you say that you hate Tories etc, what do you think you would get under a centrist party which will have obvious right wing leanings?

You're great at espousing the social aspect of your character, one that champions the most vulnerable, the needy, the destitute etc. How do you think that we've arrived at that over the past 30 years or so?

I presume that you would like to see better services, more real affordable social housing, real investment in deprived areas, better care for the plenty who are taking their own lives or sitting depressed, directly or indirectly caused through years of right wing policy, yet you promote more of the same, because you believe that basic policy which allows people to live better can never exist. Fair play sludge, like plenty of others, they've done a job on you.

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.

It wasn't left wing, it's was far more left wing than we'd seen in the UK for several decades/perhaps ever. There is still a massive difference.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.

indeed

[life on mars]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Has Labour WA really benefitted me personally? I can't say that it has

Have the Tories at Westminster hindered me? I can't say that it has - helped me in my career sector massively though

The old class divide has collapsed we longer see those traditional manual workers voting in droves for Labour , Labour has moved to more of a Metropolitan City party where its safer in the areas like Manchester , Liverpool , Bristol, and London , the traditional heartlands up north and parts midlands are seeing a shift in voting to the Tories , as they don't connect or like the Metropolitan view , it doesn't make them evil , its simply a shift in the democratic voting patterns of people .

Will be interesting to how it plays out in Wales with the gains and losses and mayoral voting in England .

Cant be bothered with the enclave that is Scotland and their ruler she reminds me of Thatcher my way or no way , lol ???

[Rjk]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.

Left wing politics is certainly not dead.
Just fractured
This result cannot be seen as a rejecton of left wing policies, as which of those has Starmer been pushing recently?

The main political issues I think are still Brexit and the pandemic.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.

that sounds like thatcher

You realise the benefits system provided for more proportionally under the tories than it did under Blair and brown ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

You think it's that simple? Fair enough. A question for you- you say that you hate Tories etc, what do you think you would get under a centrist party which will have obvious right wing leanings?

You're great at espousing the social aspect of your character, one that champions the most vulnerable, the needy, the destitute etc. How do you think that we've arrived at that over the past 30 years or so?

I presume that you would like to see better services, more real affordable social housing, real investment in deprived areas, better care for the plenty who are taking their own lives or sitting depressed, directly or indirectly caused through years of right wing policy, yet you promote more of the same, because you believe that basic policy which allows people to live better can never exist. Fair play sludge, like plenty of others, they've done a job on you.

I think I need to nail this into your head

I want a moderate , left of centre alternative to the tories

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.

Majority of those "sponging off the state" are either pensioners or in low paid jobs. Ironically, majority of those going out to work, keeping more of their money and bettering themselves through their own efforts (i.e. the young in this unstable economy) are voting for centre-left/left parties.

[Tuerto]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I think I need to nail this into your head

I want a moderate , left of centre alternative to the tories

Where nothing changes, the poor get poorer, more homeless, more depression, more addiction, communities reliant on anti depressants, lack of real job prospects, break up of families etc.... You know the drill...All the things you care about, yet you want to implement a party that would do very little to improve these people's lives. You had better get a life times supply of blankets, soup and keep adding to the food banks, those numbers you provide on mental health are going to be useful as well if you believe that a centrist party will do anything to help the poor. Good luck mate.

[blue matt]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Labour have lived on the past for too long, many Labour voters voted for them as " my dad did " or " its what we vote around these parts ", voting day is very easy for them , Arrive, get ballot papers and look for labour, put cross in that box

a political party cannot survive like that for long

Voters actually do a little research these days, if a voter see's a party that they like the look of, they get the vote ( it could actually be the evil empire, the Tories ), the blind sheep like voter ( described above ) is on its way out

[blue matt]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

10 years of Tory austerity that came about as a result of Labour almost bankrupting the Country. People are not stupid, they have longer memories that Corbyn and Starmer gave them credit for. They also realised that in spite of all the hardship caused by the austerity measures, the alternative is a Labour Government who ridiculously wanted to go on a reckless spending spree by borrowing hundreds of billions more.

it was good times though

[Rjk]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Labour have lived on the past for too long, many Labour voters voted for them as " my dad did " or " its what we vote around these parts ", voting day is very easy for them , Arrive, get ballot papers and look for labour, put cross in that box

a political party cannot survive like that for long

Voters actually do a little research these days, if a voter see's a party that they like the look of, they get the vote ( it could actually be the evil empire, the Tories ), the blind sheep like voter ( described above ) is on its way out

No I don't agree with that.
There are just as many dyed in the wool tory areas as Labour.

And I don't agree on research, especially into policies.
I know several people who expressed very strong anti Corbyn opinions at the time of the last election, but couldn't have named a single one of his policies. And when some of the policies were suggested to them they thought they sounded good - but they still didn't like Corbyn.


One person described him as a "nasty piece of work" without being able to explain why.

[jon1959]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.

The same people who in 2017 achieved the greatest increase in vote share since 1945 - and were a few thousand votes in key seats off winning power?

The majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party (fully backed by the Tory press and the Guardian) have been at war with the majority of the membership since they had the audacity to elect Corbyn in 2015 and again in 2016 after the Chicken Coup.

Labour had popular policies in 2017, and they hadn't changed too much by 2019 - except for the incoherent position on Brexit.

Corbyn was a poor party manager (probably an impossible job given what was ranged against him) and avoided confrontation too much, but as a campaigner and inspiration to hundreds of thousands of activists he had qualities that Starmer can only dream about. Starmer has trashed his 10 election pledges, backed or abstained on Tory legislation, seen about 60,000 members resign and gagged (with suspensions) about 200 constituency parties.

The demoralisation of Labour under an ineffective and right-leaning Starmer, combined with the Vaccine Bounce, the continuing effects of Brexit (and a bit of gunboat diplomacy on the day before the election) is more than enough to see Labour hammered and the Tories seeing their corruption and incompetence ignored or even celebrated.

No surprise but totally depressing!