Manchester terrorist attack.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

So you were able to talk to all 120,000 (minimum) and ask them their motives? Fair play, you get about.

There was a report in the Times this morning where the reporter was faced with animosity for asking a benign question. There are Jews who feel more threatened since the attack, not to mention the anti-Israel sentiment in the protests. But according to you anyone concerned about this is a fan of genocide, a cheerleader and divulging in "plain shit".

You can't ridicule Jon's anecdotal evidence if you are going to counter it with less comprehensive anecdotal evidence.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

What's your opinion on the UN-declared genocide? Before the events at the synagogue this week do you think people are right to be protesting against it?

It's obviously awful what's happening out there and people have a right to protest. I just don't think they're as pure as people are making out. There were pro-Palestine demos immediately after October 7th and before Israel had begun to retaliate.

[Coyote]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

It's obviously awful what's happening out there and people have a right to protest. I just don't think they're as pure as people are making out. There were pro-Palestine demos immediately after October 7th and before Israel had begun to retaliate.

Because people knew exactly what was coming. My first reaction, as well as my family's was "Oh shit, just watch what Israel do now in response." I think our response has been vindicated in the time since 7/10/23.

Not to mention, the evidence is overwhelming that Netanyahu allowed for security failings on October 7th to occur despite being tipped off by intelligence agencies, and rather than target the Hamas insurgent who participated in the attacks, he instead targeted civilians carte blanche in retaliation. Netanyahu fits the profile of a psychopath who used this as a casus belli to seize the territory and wipe out the Palestinian population.

I'm not defending what Hamas did, and undeniably, innocent Israelis died. But it was Netanyahu and his government who allowed it to happen to distract from his domestic crisis and impending ousting from power.

[jon1959]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

So you were able to talk to all 120,000 (minimum) and ask them their motives? Fair play, you get about.

There was a report in the Times this morning where the reporter was faced with animosity for asking a benign question. There are Jews who feel more threatened since the attack, not to mention the anti-Israel sentiment in the protests. But according to you anyone concerned about this is a fan of genocide, a cheerleader and divulging in "plain shit".

No I haven't spoken to everybody on all of the Palestine marches (several million people) to determine their motives for being there. But I have talked to hundreds of different people, taken part, moved around on most of the marches to see the placards, listen to the chants and hear the platform speeches. Enough to form a confident opinion about who is there and why. Overwhelmingly people are there on the Palestine demonstrations out of disgust at the actions of the Israeli government, and in favour of a ceasefire and political settlement that gives peace and security to Israelis and Palestinians alike.

I have never heard what I consider to be anti Semitic chanting - but certainly chanting against the Israeli government, the IDF and the domestic politicians who are complicit in the genocide. Those who call that anti Semitism (and accuse the thousands of Jewish people who are participants and leaders of those protests as anti Semitic) are certainly talking 'plain shit'.

There will clearly be Jewish people who feel more threatened since the Manchester attack. Of course they will after an unprovoked terror attack on a synagogue. We should all support and defend the Jewish community in these circumstances. But if you or others claim that protests against continuing genocide in Gaza is threatening to Jewish people in the UK you are just stoking fears and flipping truth on its head. Eric Cartman has it right on that. If your identity and sense of security depends on silencing opposition to genocide then you are on the wrong side of the argument and I have no sympathy!

[Dorcus]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

It's obviously awful what's happening out there and people have a right to protest. I just don't think they're as pure as people are making out. There were pro-Palestine demos immediately after October 7th and before Israel had begun to retaliate.

Have you got a dog in this fight? I mean if you happen to be Jewish and Zionist then you will have a particular view on things and it will not be easy to view the argument from both sides.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

No I haven't spoken to everybody on all of the Palestine marches (several million people) to determine their motives for being there. But I have talked to hundreds of different people, taken part, moved around on most of the marches to see the placards, listen to the chants and hear the platform speeches. Enough to form a confident opinion about who is there and why. Overwhelmingly people are there on the Palestine demonstrations out of disgust at the actions of the Israeli government, and in favour of a ceasefire and political settlement that gives peace and security to Israelis and Palestinians alike.

I have never heard what I consider to be anti Semitic chanting - but certainly chanting against the Israeli government, the IDF and the domestic politicians who are complicit in the genocide. Those who call that anti Semitism (and accuse the thousands of Jewish people who are participants and leaders of those protests as anti Semitic) are certainly talking 'plain shit'.

There will clearly be Jewish people who feel more threatened since the Manchester attack. Of course they will after an unprovoked terror attack on a synagogue. We should all support and defend the Jewish community in these circumstances. But if you or others claim that protests against continuing genocide in Gaza is threatening to Jewish people in the UK you are just stoking fears and flipping truth on its head. Eric Cartman has it right on that. If your identity and sense of security depends on silencing opposition to genocide then you are on the wrong side of the argument and I have no sympathy!

I didn't say anything about chanting. I'm talking about a general anti-Israel, anti-Zionist agenda that's there - in some people - all the time. I saw some guys holding placards with the face of the Iranian Ayatollah but I'm sure they were all pure of spirit.

It's my opinion you were more pissed off about what the synagogue attack would mean rather than the attack itself, and you couldn't shut up for five minutes while the dust settled.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

Have you got a dog in this fight? I mean if you happen to be Jewish and Zionist then you will have a particular view on things and it will not be easy to view the argument from both sides.

No.

[Dorcus]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

No.

Ok, that clarifies matters a bit, thanks.

[jon1959]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

I didn't say anything about chanting. I'm talking about a general anti-Israel, anti-Zionist agenda that's there - in some people - all the time. I saw some guys holding placards with the face of the Iranian Ayatollah but I'm sure they were all pure of spirit.

It's my opinion you were more pissed off about what the synagogue attack would mean rather than the attack itself, and you couldn't shut up for five minutes while the dust settled.

So it is now an anti Israel and anti Zionist agenda - not ‘anti Semitism’ on the protests like through a ‘stick of rock’. At least that is a bit more honest. And it is true that many people on the protests (Jews and non Jews) are certainly anti Zionist and have been campaigning against Israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing for decades. I have!

Then you return to your starting point - which is quite a journey. My first response to the Manchester attack is sympathy for the victims of the terror attack and their community. My second response is disgust at the way politicians used it immediately to close down protest against the Gaza genocide. Netanyahu was doing that all over the media before I responded to Paul’s OP.

You have a problem with that. I have a problem with your reaction. I think it is dishonest and disrespectful - but I also think we have done this to death and there is no point discussing it further.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

So it is now an anti Israel and anti Zionist agenda - not ‘anti Semitism’ on the protests like through a ‘stick of rock’. At least that is a bit more honest. And it is true that many people on the protests (Jews and non Jews) are certainly anti Zionist and have been campaigning against Israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing for decades. I have!

Then you return to your starting point - which is quite a journey. My first response to the Manchester attack is sympathy for the victims of the terror attack and their community. My second response is disgust at the way politicians used it immediately to close down protest against the Gaza genocide. Netanyahu was doing that all over the media before I responded to Paul’s OP.

You have a problem with that. I have a problem with your reaction. I think it is dishonest and disrespectful - but I also think we have done this to death and there is no point discussing it further.

I don't do wind-ups. My posts were honest. If you didn't like them that's up to you.

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

I think given how inflammatory things are at the moment that not protesting just 36 hours after this attack in Manchester wouldn't have been too much to arrange

Obviously there are going to be lots of that north Manchester Jewish congregation who were NOT huge Netanyahu or Israel supporters ....

I think like its possible to be pro palestinian anti zionist and not anti semitic , anti Jewish ......its also possible to support these overwhelmingly peaceful protests but think maybe holding back after Thursdays events is a legitimate and reasonable opinion

Good Grief!

Sludge and I agree on something.

Particularly the final paragraph.

[Dorcus]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

Good Grief!

Sludge and I agree on something.

Particularly the final paragraph.

Now you're big mates go on share your pix of Sara with him.

[William Treseder]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

What's your opinion on the UN-declared genocide? Before the events at the synagogue this week do you think people are right to be protesting against it?

I think the pro Palestinian protesters should maybe start protesting for Hamas to do their utmost to agree to a peace deal. Don’t you?

[Heathblue]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

I think the pro Palestinian protesters should maybe start protesting for Hamas to do their utmost to agree to a peace deal. Don’t you?

Their hate of one person is greater than their wanting a peace deal. (Keeping it simple.)

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

What's your opinion on the UN-declared genocide? Before the events at the synagogue this week do you think people are right to be protesting against it?

There is no UN declared genocide.

The UN has said it will wait for the court case in the Hague to declare its verdict before making its determination although it says "the evidence is mounting".

The UN commission which declared it a genocide does not speak for the UN.