The New Normal

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: The New Normal

So you aren't implying anything, but then a paragraph later you are implying I was being racially biased. Nice one, Cyril! 🥴

It's relatively early so I can't put your misunderstanding down to extraneous factors.

Despite you bracketing me with Sludge this morning, nowhere in my posts have I meaningfully referenced far right. To state otherwise is a lie, things I know from this thread you find abhorrent.

If I was to imply that you were right wing though I would probably point to the many unprompted posts showing Labour in a bad light and the plethora of posts supposedly adding defensive balance for such luminaries as Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Nigel Farage and their cohorts. I did not do so.

I did imply that your whatabouttery had the hallmarks of someone with racial bias. In Vino Veritas and all that!

Hope that clarifies.

[Dorcus]

Re: The New Normal

An interesting fact. UK homicides have tended to be around 650 for a number of years. Therefore the average number of weekly murders would be approx. 13.

Why I highlight this is I'm perplexed why someone (who purportedly is not far right and has no racial bias) would focus on one particular murder in a particular week which was confirmed to be perpetrated by an immigrant. I'm assuming the other (on average) 12 were not committed by immigrants otherwise the poster would have highlighted that particular situation.

Therefore I wonder why the issue of murder was raised out of the blue because all the facts reveal is that one in 8 murders in a particular week were committed by an immigrant. Hardly newsworthy in my opinion. All the more curious because the particular thread had absolutely nothing to do with the subject of homicides. A strange perspective indeed.

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

An interesting fact. UK homicides have tended to be around 650 for a number of years. Therefore the average number of weekly murders would be approx. 13.

Why I highlight this is I'm perplexed why someone (who purportedly is not far right and has no racial bias) would focus on one particular murder in a particular week which was confirmed to be perpetrated by an immigrant. I'm assuming the other (on average) 12 were not committed by immigrants otherwise the poster would have highlighted that particular situation.

Therefore I wonder why the issue of murder was raised out of the blue because all the facts reveal is that one in 8 murders in a particular week were committed by an immigrant. Hardly newsworthy in my opinion. All the more curious because the particular thread had absolutely nothing to do with the subject of homicides. A strange perspective indeed.

I mentioned two key news events that week Dorcus. Others mentioned race. I didn't know strawman had a race, but there we go!

[Dorcus]

Re: The New Normal

I mentioned two key news events that week Dorcus. Others mentioned race. I didn't know strawman had a race, but there we go!

I'm not sure strawman has a race but neither am I sure it was a "key" piece of news at all. Why didn't you mention the other (on average) 12 murders that week. And as I said it was a remark made as a tangent because the thread had nothing at all to do with homicide. Shirley you must know about selective comments l? I must confess I found it odd and an attempt at deflection from the gist of the argument.

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

It's relatively early so I can't put your misunderstanding down to extraneous factors.

Despite you bracketing me with Sludge this morning, nowhere in my posts have I meaningfully referenced far right. To state otherwise is a lie, things I know from this thread you find abhorrent.

If I was to imply that you were right wing though I would probably point to the many unprompted posts showing Labour in a bad light and the plethora of posts supposedly adding defensive balance for such luminaries as Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Nigel Farage and their cohorts. I did not do so.

I did imply that your whatabouttery had the hallmarks of someone with racial bias. In Vino Veritas and all that!

Hope that clarifies.

Thanks for your solidarity in getting the liars Cyril. Aren't you a good egg?!

Of course, I am sure you appreciate that being labelled far right or racist when you aren't, is far worse than being accused of implying something, when as you say you weren't, even though you then go onto imply racial bias, which you haven't really backed up...anyway, I digress! Thanks for the solidarity!

You've moved the topic on therw of course, and handily ignored all the times I have defended Labour. I did so the other day in a small discussion with Jon on "u-turns". I will do so a lot, but we have had a Labour govt here for 25 years so it's hard not to be critical sometimes. I'm not sure if you live in Wales, so perhaps it's different for you?

You seem obsessed with someone having a beer when posting? It's a curious thing, because Sludge has said that with no basis, bar the fact I said before I took a long break when I did so once, which I haven't done on this occasion. But weird tbh, but there we go.

I look forward to you playing this fatherly role going forward 🙏

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

I'm not sure strawman has a race but neither am I sure it was a "key" piece of news at all. Why didn't you mention the other (on average) 12 murders that week. And as I said it was a remark made as a tangent because the thread had nothing at all to do with homicide. Shirley you must know about selective comments l? I must confess I found it odd and an attempt at deflection from the gist of the argument.

Okay, so first up...it really was news. On the day in question, the newspaper front pages were full of the story of the escaped sex offender. I quote from the BBC:

"Many papers feature the Epping asylum seeker jailed for sexual assault who has been released from prison by mistake"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg51v6d9qn8o

The day before, we had the decision on the dreadful murder of the poor woman in Walsall who worked in the hotel the guy was staying in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgkpyr1ep4o

So, both those stories were, pretty much, the stories of the day. Now I'm not saying what was said about the TV adverts was not news. Her language was undeniably bad and she rightly apologised. But the story of released child sex offenders, and in particular, the brutal murder of a woman by someone she was helping, i think they are much bigger stories. And seeing some of you get apoplectic about words but seemingly saying nothing on those things. It triggered me. I think it said a lot to be honest, and I don't understand it.

We can't all get angry about everything, but I think that thread stood out to me tbh, as something where the priorities were all wrong.

I accept the charge of whataboutery. I completely reject what Sludge wrote, which to be honest is part of the problem imo

Anyway, happy to move on.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: The New Normal

And seeing some of you get apoplectic about words but seemingly saying nothing on those things. It triggered me. I think it said a lot to be honest, and I don't understand it.

Yet you got apoplectic about protesters in London chanting "From the river to the sea" whilst being ambivilant about the slaughter of 70k Gazans.

Words...deeds. Whatabouterry.....bloody hell eh!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The New Normal

Okay, so first up...it really was news. On the day in question, the newspaper front pages were full of the story of the escaped sex offender. I quote from the BBC:

"Many papers feature the Epping asylum seeker jailed for sexual assault who has been released from prison by mistake"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg51v6d9qn8o

The day before, we had the decision on the dreadful murder of the poor woman in Walsall who worked in the hotel the guy was staying in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgkpyr1ep4o

So, both those stories were, pretty much, the stories of the day. Now I'm not saying what was said about the TV adverts was not news. Her language was undeniably bad and she rightly apologised. But the story of released child sex offenders, and in particular, the brutal murder of a woman by someone she was helping, i think they are much bigger stories. And seeing some of you get apoplectic about words but seemingly saying nothing on those things. It triggered me. I think it said a lot to be honest, and I don't understand it.

We can't all get angry about everything, but I think that thread stood out to me tbh, as something where the priorities were all wrong.

I accept the charge of whataboutery. I completely reject what Sludge wrote, which to be honest is part of the problem imo

Anyway, happy to move on.

What a load of bollocks 😆

Christ you are important aren't you ?

What I wrote was following a load of offensive right wing drunken crap from you the other night you scuttled off after being pulled up on it .....without so much of a slight holding up of the hand that you were wrong ....and you were

You then went awol ......then resurfaced hoping to slip back in as normal

I am afraid thats just pathetic

So utter nonsense on both counts .but you keep on playing the victim card here and indulge in being outraged when it suits you

Its like trying to kill a snake with 30 heads

[Dorcus]

Re: The New Normal

Okay, so first up...it really was news. On the day in question, the newspaper front pages were full of the story of the escaped sex offender. I quote from the BBC:

"Many papers feature the Epping asylum seeker jailed for sexual assault who has been released from prison by mistake"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg51v6d9qn8o

The day before, we had the decision on the dreadful murder of the poor woman in Walsall who worked in the hotel the guy was staying in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgkpyr1ep4o

So, both those stories were, pretty much, the stories of the day. Now I'm not saying what was said about the TV adverts was not news. Her language was undeniably bad and she rightly apologised. But the story of released child sex offenders, and in particular, the brutal murder of a woman by someone she was helping, i think they are much bigger stories. And seeing some of you get apoplectic about words but seemingly saying nothing on those things. It triggered me. I think it said a lot to be honest, and I don't understand it.

We can't all get angry about everything, but I think that thread stood out to me tbh, as something where the priorities were all wrong.

I accept the charge of whataboutery. I completely reject what Sludge wrote, which to be honest is part of the problem imo

Anyway, happy to move on.

Ok it happened to be news on that particular day you say, fair enough, but presumably on another day the story might have been about a white murderer killing an immigrant for example, who knows? The point is it was selective reporting and had nothing to do with the theme of the thread.

Quite rightly any sort of murder is something to be upset about but at the same time a racist using racist language to try to manipulate the minds of a widespread audience is also of concern, as are many aspects of life. I think it absolutely right the wretched racist was brought to account and her brazen attempt at mass manipulation be condemned. There is no scale of priority. The World we live in is complex and there are a myriad of problems which face us all. If we were to rank them and focus on a select number rather than each of them in turn then it would be impossible to face up to those many problems and attempt to redress the balance.

There was absolutely no need to bring up the murder reference and your anger is naive and misplaced. There obviously is a very real need to reduce murder rates but at the same time it is right that we be vigilant against clear fascist manipulation. I'm sure deep down you know that to be true.

Ironically, if you had acknowledged that the abject woman in question had shot her argument in the foot with overtly racist bile then you would have strengthened your own long standing contention that immigration needs to be properly addressed and managed. I would argue that's a sound and reasonable stance prejudiced by projecting it through an obviously racist prism.

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

And seeing some of you get apoplectic about words but seemingly saying nothing on those things. It triggered me. I think it said a lot to be honest, and I don't understand it.

Yet you got apoplectic about protesters in London chanting "From the river to the sea" whilst being ambivilant about the slaughter of 70k Gazans.

Words...deeds. Whatabouterry.....bloody hell eh!

I'm not ambivalent about it. I think the people doing the chanting make the deaths more likely, because the war was never ending until the hostages were released.

Can you please stop saying things about me that are incorrect?

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

What a load of bollocks 😆

Christ you are important aren't you ?

What I wrote was following a load of offensive right wing drunken crap from you the other night you scuttled off after being pulled up on it .....without so much of a slight holding up of the hand that you were wrong ....and you were

You then went awol ......then resurfaced hoping to slip back in as normal

I am afraid thats just pathetic

So utter nonsense on both counts .but you keep on playing the victim card here and indulge in being outraged when it suits you

Its like trying to kill a snake with 30 heads

Shush, liar.

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

Ok it happened to be news on that particular day you say, fair enough, but presumably on another day the story might have been about a white murderer killing an immigrant for example, who knows? The point is it was selective reporting and had nothing to do with the theme of the thread.

Quite rightly any sort of murder is something to be upset about but at the same time a racist using racist language to try to manipulate the minds of a widespread audience is also of concern, as are many aspects of life. I think it absolutely right the wretched racist was brought to account and her brazen attempt at mass manipulation be condemned. There is no scale of priority. The World we live in is complex and there are a myriad of problems which face us all. If we were to rank them and focus on a select number rather than each of them in turn then it would be impossible to face up to those many problems and attempt to redress the balance.

There was absolutely no need to bring up the murder reference and your anger is naive and misplaced. There obviously is a very real need to reduce murder rates but at the same time it is right that we be vigilant against clear fascist manipulation. I'm sure deep down you know that to be true.

Ironically, if you had acknowledged that the abject woman in question had shot her argument in the foot with overtly racist bile then you would have strengthened your own long standing contention that immigration needs to be properly addressed and managed. I would argue that's a sound and reasonable stance prejudiced by projecting it through an obviously racist prism.

I think you've missed my point.

On a day when the story was about an escaped sex. Offender. And a woman murdered by someone in a hotel she cared for them in. And a woman talking the disproportionate number of people in TV adverts, it is the last one that people got angry about.

I don't get that.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: The New Normal

Can you please stop saying things about me that are incorrect?

Let me get this right. After a day of challenging you to back up your post this morning that I supported Sludge in thinking you were far right. Every time calling you a liar with no push back.

You want me to stop saying things about you that you perceive to be incorrect?

[JamesWales]

Re: The New Normal

Let me get this right. After a day of challenging you to back up your post this morning that I supported Sludge in thinking you were far right. Every time calling you a liar with no push back.

You want me to stop saying things about you that you perceive to be incorrect?

We established sometime ago that you agreed that I wasn't far right or racist Cyril. Keep up. You did then go on to make innuendos about racial bias which you haven't backed up though.

You have now said I have little issue with tens of thousands of deaths in Gaza.

So yes, if you could stop talking bollocks about me, that would be great, thanks

[Dorcus]

Re: The New Normal

I think you've missed my point.

On a day when the story was about an escaped sex. Offender. And a woman murdered by someone in a hotel she cared for them in. And a woman talking the disproportionate number of people in TV adverts, it is the last one that people got angry about.

I don't get that.

I've not missed your point at all. You could use the same argument about you becoming angry about the murder of one woman (awful as that was) and seemingly neglecting the murder of thousands of innocents including women and children in Gaza over two years!

I doubt the genocide doesn't bother you as I believe you to be fair minded underneath but I don't expect you to rank it alongside when showing concerns for the woman's murder. Both circumstances are horrible. Nevertheless, human beings quite rightly possess the capacity to address many issues simultaneously without minimising any one of them.

I think you allowed your better judgment to be affected by your prejudices and your instinctive need to defend a Reform member. Having said that we've all been in a position where too much alcohol has impaired our actions and so I've got some sympathy for you