Has the Sir resigned yet

[JamesWales]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

"Brexity" views and "egalitarian" views aren't by any stretch of the imagination opposites at all. This is what gets me with so much analysis from the left nowadays. It is fundamentally flawed in its analysis and is often at least 20 years out of date.

Like with all of this stuff I would tread carefully but this is consistent in terms of nearly all surveys in recent years

The left/right split is generally 50/50 but wealthiest are more likely to vote Labour and Reforms appeal grows the lower the income people have.

The reality is so many of you overlook this, fail to understand why it's happening (usually blaming them for being thick or gullible) and fail to see the fact that in many cases you are representing the views of the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

https://x.com/GeoPoliticalGuy/status/2053130651977601078

[Dorcus]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

"Brexity" views and "egalitarian" views aren't by any stretch of the imagination opposites at all. This is what gets me with so much analysis from the left nowadays. It is fundamentally flawed in its analysis and is often at least 20 years out of date.

Like with all of this stuff I would tread carefully but this is consistent in terms of nearly all surveys in recent years

The left/right split is generally 50/50 but wealthiest are more likely to vote Labour and Reforms appeal grows the lower the income people have.

The reality is so many of you overlook this, fail to understand why it's happening (usually blaming them for being thick or gullible) and fail to see the fact that in many cases you are representing the views of the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

https://x.com/GeoPoliticalGuy/status...30651977601078

They are total opposites.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

Absolutely correct and it's already happened. I believe if immigration was reduced to zero and Labour implemented every single policy it wanted a massive chunk of the country would still not vote for the party.

Nowadays I think most people (wrongly in my opinion) do not think of themselves in class terms and do not see the tension between bosses and workers. That was the raison detre of the Labour party. Most people see status as being more fluid and often accept unhealthy discrepancies in wealth and power. That being the case I think Labour's position is existential. No matter what they do they will always be hated by a large swathe of the country who now consider themselves as being "comfortable" and don't identify as "workers" but inevitably want more at other people's expense.

I wonder if, things being as bad as ever, Labour should now look to reinvent themselves and cohere around a new constituency and concept and maybe title themselves as "The Progressives" with a view to create a large left leaning base maybe with the Greens, some Independents and some Lib Dems. The real battle will be between "Brexity" views and "Egalitarian" views and I think there is no time to lose for Labour to get back into the fight.

I have thought that for some time

[JamesWales]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

They are total opposites.

How is wanting politicians you elect to have the powers over the laws that impact us, or poorer communities voting for something, or slogans a kit the NHS remotely opposite to wanting something more egalitarian? There are valid criticisms of the referendum but claiming Brexit was the opposite of wanting a more equal society is absolute garbage.

The split between communities that voted leave and those who voted remain is absolutely stark in terms of income and wealth. Instead of thinking that rich people know best, why don't you listen to how poorer communities actually vote. So many on the left now have an almost paternalistic approach to working class people, and woe betide they think differently to how you want them to!

[Dorcus]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

How is wanting politicians you elect to have the powers over the laws that impact us, or poorer communities voting for something, or slogans a kit the NHS remotely opposite to wanting something more egalitarian? There are valid criticisms of the referendum but claiming Brexit was the opposite of wanting a more equal society is absolute garbage.

The split between communities that voted leave and those who voted remain is absolutely stark in terms of income and wealth. Instead of thinking that rich people know best, why don't you listen to how poorer communities actually vote. So many on the left now have an almost paternalistic approach to working class people, and woe betide they think differently to how you want them to!

You are full of drivel!

Your first sentence doesn't make sense. People wanting better lives is a given but those dreams can only be enacted by policies and policies which make the rich richer and the poor poorer are egalitarian concerns. Goodness, surely even you can see that without spouting abuse. I certainly don't think rich people know best (they rarely do) but that's rich from you as a right winger because that's been the ethos of the right since time immemorial.

If you read my earlier piece properly you would see I don't have any "paternalistic" view of "workers" because although it still holds true most people disregard the status these days. By the way that's weird coming from you as you can't wait to tell us the old left right divide is non existent.

Anyway why should you as a Reform voter worry about the future of the Labour Party? I don't think it needs your input.

[Dorcus]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

I have thought that for some time

I think it's inevitable

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

"Brexity" views and "egalitarian" views aren't by any stretch of the imagination opposites at all. This is what gets me with so much analysis from the left nowadays. It is fundamentally flawed in its analysis and is often at least 20 years out of date.

Like with all of this stuff I would tread carefully but this is consistent in terms of nearly all surveys in recent years

The left/right split is generally 50/50 but wealthiest are more likely to vote Labour and Reforms appeal grows the lower the income people have.

The reality is so many of you overlook this, fail to understand why it's happening (usually blaming them for being thick or gullible) and fail to see the fact that in many cases you are representing the views of the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

https://x.com/GeoPoliticalGuy/status...30651977601078

It is thick and gullible to think 'I don't like what's happened with immigration' and then to vote for a party containing the people who were in charge of it when it sky rocketed.

If the electorate aren't thick and gullible why does every political party try and get their vote with a 2-4 word slogan?

[JamesWales]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

It is thick and gullible to think 'I don't like what's happened with immigration' and then to vote for a party containing the people who were in charge of it when it sky rocketed.

If the electorate aren't thick and gullible why does every political party try and get their vote with a 2-4 word slogan?

I take your point, but you give two examples of people, none of whom were standing as councillors in any area and assume people will make an entire decision as to who will run their council based on that? Its easy to come up with examples like that but people have to vote for someone (of course they don't have to really, but you know what I mean) so it's usually a case of who is the least imperfect for people.

A mistake people make in this kind of thing is assuming that someone votes for something for the same reason as someone else votes against something. Its not really like that, even in two-chice referenda. There's multiple decisions being made.

Yeah I'm not one for slogans but we all know that they help convey messages to people, same as slogans, colours, fonts etc. just marketing.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

How is wanting politicians you elect to have the powers over the laws that impact us, or poorer communities voting for something, or slogans a kit the NHS remotely opposite to wanting something more egalitarian? There are valid criticisms of the referendum but claiming Brexit was the opposite of wanting a more equal society is absolute garbage.

The split between communities that voted leave and those who voted remain is absolutely stark in terms of income and wealth. Instead of thinking that rich people know best, why don't you listen to how poorer communities actually vote. So many on the left now have an almost paternalistic approach to working class people, and woe betide they think differently to how you want them to!

I agree we should listen to them and they specifically elected a man who wants to melt Nigerians down to fill the potholes, fire up the furnaces, the will of the people must be fulfilled.

Hope Not Hate reported on this on May 1st, surely it would be patronising to suggest the highly informed electorate of sunderland didn't do their due diligence on him, they must have known this when casting their vote.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

I take your point, but you give two examples of people, none of whom were standing as councillors in any area and assume people will make an entire decision as to who will run their council based on that? Its easy to come up with examples like that but people have to vote for someone (of course they don't have to really, but you know what I mean) so it's usually a case of who is the least imperfect for people.

A mistake people make in this kind of thing is assuming that someone votes for something for the same reason as someone else votes against something. Its not really like that, even in two-chice referenda. There's multiple decisions being made.

Yeah I'm not one for slogans but we all know that they help convey messages to people, same as slogans, colours, fonts etc. just marketing.

That could be true and ideally people would be voting for their local candidate and not by party but I think it's pretty rare. And also we can't have it both ways, let's just remember that point when reform try to use these results as evidence of support for their national platform, which they will.

[Dorcus]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

I agree we should listen to them and they specifically elected a man who wants to melt Nigerians down to fill the potholes, fire up the furnaces, the will of the people must be fulfilled.

Hope Not Hate reported on this on May 1st, surely it would be patronising to suggest the highly informed electorate of sunderland didn't do their due diligence on him, they must have known this when casting their vote.

I'm not sure the highly informed electorate of Sunderland would even care; or worse they'd split their sides laughing in Wetherspoons.

Away the lads!

[JamesWales]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

I'm not sure the highly informed electorate of Sunderland would even care; or worse they'd split their sides laughing in Wetherspoons.

Away the lads!

Snob

[Dorcus]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

Snob

They say the truth hurts! How's your tax code going?

[Dorcus]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

Sorry it should have been...howay the lads

[Packerman]

Re: Has the Sir resigned yet

Sorry it should have been...howay the lads

Get your facts right it’s haway the lads. One letter big significance