This flight to Rwanda

[ninian opinian]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

There’s a culture war to be won though and Tories in trouble (especially this Tory party) will turn to the immigration card because, sadly, it will help recreate the spirit of Brexit Britain 2016 - immigration played a decisive part in the outcome of the Referendum and then it just stopped being mentioned almost as if some were embarrassed by their behaviour during the campaign. Will Self was right, if you were a racist, what was the point of voting remain? I still believe that while it’s completely wrong to suggest all leave voters were racists, I certainly think there were enough of them to account for the difference in the vote between the two sides .

Seems like there’s been developments overnight anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61806383

This, totally agree. It makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach that they are using the most vulnerable human beings as pawns in their sordid, racist games.

You even had Tom Hunt the Tory MP blaming those arriving on boats for the fact you can’t get a GP appointment or a house. Wait until he discovers that his Tory government has peen in power for 12 plus years and their underfunding/austerity/miss management has caused all this.

[Trigger]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Labour mp was on earlier talking about negotiating with the EU as we used to return some there.

Yea that's not happening is it pal.

None of them got a clue.

You can't just have illegals crossing the channel but none of them got a scooby on what to do about it.

I agree these flights were never getting off the ground.

[Rjk]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

This, totally agree. It makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach that they are using the most vulnerable human beings as pawns in their sordid, racist games.

You even had Tom Hunt the Tory MP blaming those arriving on boats for the fact you can’t get a GP appointment or a house. Wait until he discovers that his Tory government has peen in power for 12 plus years and their underfunding/austerity/miss management has caused all this.

between Ukraine and Hong Kong we've taken recently 10 times as many as come over on boats annually, yet.nobody is complaining about Ukrainians or Hong Kongers all the hospital appointments or housing

[sneggyblubird]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Cancelled
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...droidApp_Other

No baggage handlers.

[caerkid]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

'the true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members'

It's hard to see how anyone can support this other than those so emotionally damaged that they take pleasure from hurting those who are worse off .Unfortunately now that Johnson is under pressure he will need to appeal more and more to the nutters on the back benches. Hopefully it's the death throes of a dead duck prime minister and his cult of wierdos but who knows how long it will continue with this awful lot.

Still, let's not criticise because the ex,ex,ex,ex leader of labour once thought about a similar policy for half an hour decades ago so let's just shout whatabout instead. It's a tragedy that the current Labour party are unable to condemn this scheme too heavily, other than for a cost reason, but the fact that they have to be careful to always appeal to Sun readers shows just who runs this country.

The idea that this would stop anyone from trying to get to the UK (often to be with their family) is a joke. It's already a journey which involves significant risk of harm/death so why would a 1 in godknows how big a number chance of being sent to Rwanda put anyone off ?

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

There’s a culture war to be won though and Tories in trouble (especially this Tory party) will turn to the immigration card because, sadly, it will help recreate the spirit of Brexit Britain 2016 - immigration played a decisive part in the outcome of the Referendum and then it just stopped being mentioned almost as if some were embarrassed by their behaviour during the campaign. Will Self was right, if you were a racist, what was the point of voting remain? I still believe that while it’s completely wrong to suggest all leave voters were racists, I certainly think there were enough of them to account for the difference in the vote between the two sides .

Seems like there’s been developments overnight anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61806383

Jesus...

"I can't believe the other side waging a culture way!" followed by wild accusations of leave voters being racist (with zero evidence) on a topic that is nothing to do with the referendum (illegal immigration is an issue in or out of the EU and globally) and bafflingly backed up by millionnaire EU home owning Will Self, as if that somehow gives the point legitimacy.

Lets break it down:

1 - In respect of immigration, leaving the EU treats people equally wherever they are from. EU immigration policy undeniably favours people from an overwhelmingly white place (the EU) over people from an overwhelmingly non white place (the rest of the world). Without a question, the EU's immigration policy is more racist.

2 - The EU itself has built fences and used water cannon against migrants. I mean, do you guys just have your fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes or what? Have you seen what France did to people in Calais? Spain in Melilla? Greece in Turkey? Poland at their borders? Honestly, I can spell it out to you, but it's better you look yourself.

3 - Some of you buy into this absolute myth that Britain is some racist hell hole, for what? For not supporting endless numbers of people arriving via the channel having paid criminal gangs? By nature all of the people will not be British citizens, but doing something about it doesn't make a country racist, it makes them responsible. Putting aside the irony that it's white liberals that are telling the immigrants how racist our country is (in which case why are they coming here), there is no basis for the argument. None at all.

Honestly, these flights will take off, and rightly so. You cannot have a situation where anyone who wants to come here can do so. It is a totally unsustainable situation and you need to come up with some better policies than 'uR aLl RacIsTs' because if and when Labour are in power, there is no chance whatsoever they would tolerate this either.

[lincoln blue]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

this policy is purely for the headlines, there is no substance behind it other than to look strong on immigration. people are being treated shabbily for a few tawdry votes.

there has been no formal calculation or analysis into whether this will actually reduce the number of people crossing the channel, the government have admitted this, and there is no defined number of people they will deport before they're done with this ludicrous policy.

planes cost cost a lot of money to charter if it's only for 6 people. I wonder how much per person deported this whole shabby business has cost. well into the hundreds of thousands I expect

The whole point of this shameful fiasco is to appeal to the knuckle dragging wing of the Tory Party/UKIP etc and and it's working.
I can see Boris and Co electioneering on the subject and blaming the "loony lefty, labour supporting lawyers" blocking this policy and claiming the humanitarian high ground in trying (not) to put the traffickers out of business.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

'the true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members'

It's hard to see how anyone can support this other than those so emotionally damaged that they take pleasure from hurting those who are worse off .Unfortunately now that Johnson is under pressure he will need to appeal more and more to the nutters on the back benches. Hopefully it's the death throes of a dead duck prime minister and his cult of wierdos but who knows how long it will continue with this awful lot.

Still, let's not criticise because the ex,ex,ex,ex leader of labour once thought about a similar policy for half an hour decades ago so let's just shout whatabout instead. It's a tragedy that the current Labour party are unable to condemn this scheme too heavily, other than for a cost reason, but the fact that they have to be careful to always appeal to Sun readers shows just who runs this country.

The idea that this would stop anyone from trying to get to the UK (often to be with their family) is a joke. It's already a journey which involves significant risk of harm/death so why would a 1 in godknows how big a number chance of being sent to Rwanda put anyone off ?

Claiming moral high ground? TICK
Anyone who thinks differently is a nutter? TICK
Defending Corbyn? TICK
Random comment on the Sun? TICK
Total absence of understanding of the issue? TICK
Total absence of any viable solution? TICK

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

The whole point of this shameful fiasco is to appeal to the knuckle dragging wing of the Tory Party/UKIP etc and and it's working.
I can see Boris and Co electioneering on the subject and blaming the "loony lefty, labour supporting lawyers" blocking this policy and claiming the humanitarian high ground in trying (not) to put the traffickers out of business.

What would you do? Several hundred people may arrive today. Whats your plan?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

What happens when a refugee who has been despatched to Rwanda is advised in due course that his or her application for refugee status in the UK has been declined?

[Sts'ikel]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

That's actually one of the issues here - people being sent to Rwanda won't have their UK asylum application considered. They will only be given the option to claim for Rwandan asylum.

I also think it's really important to differentiate between this policy and a general policy of removing people to their country of origin or another country where they have a connection where a claim has been refused. In this Rwanda policy, people have no connection to Rwanda and haven't actually had a decision on the application they lodged in the UK. Where someone has had their application properly considered in the UK and it's been rejected (with any appeals being heard) then removal from UK must be an option.

I don't think you can characterise that as saying "bUT iTs RaCIsT".

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

What happens when a refugee who has been despatched to Rwanda is advised in due course that his or her application for refugee status in the UK has been declined?

I'm not sure. Presumably returned to their country of origin.

[caerkid]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Total absence of any viable solution? TICK

Perhaps a decent & humane immigration and asylum policy ? One that doesn't appal the church, royalty, home office staff, charities, human rights experts etc would also be good.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Perhaps a humane immigration and asylum policy ? One that doesn't appall the church, royalty, charities, human rights experts etc would also be good.

Any substance to that? It's 2022 not 1622. The church and royal family don't determine immigration policy.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

That's actually one of the issues here - people being sent to Rwanda won't have their UK asylum application considered. They will only be given the option to claim for Rwandan asylum.

I also think it's really important to differentiate between this policy and a general policy of removing people to their country of origin or another country where they have a connection where a claim has been refused. In this Rwanda policy, people have no connection to Rwanda and haven't actually had a decision on the application they lodged in the UK. Where someone has had their application properly considered in the UK and it's been rejected (with any appeals being heard) then removal from UK must be an option.

I don't think you can characterise that as saying "bUT iTs RaCIsT".

Incredible - and the information in the video from Sky News appears to confirm your statement. I wonder how many people have expressed their support for this policy without knowing about this aspect.