Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Definitely, it seems a disingenuous way of trying to disguise this mess we are in.

I'm not trying to diguise anything. That fact is that 100,000 people have not been directly killed by the virus. The majority would have died anyway sooner rather than later, given the figures on underlying health conditions. As I said what matters is the excess deaths and whilst these or some of them may be attributable to government acting too late, the figure is nowhere near the 100,000 that people are using as a stick to beat people with. And of those excess deaths some are certainly attributal to the acts or omissions of central government and some to devolved governments.

Two other points: It was recorded in the summer when the first wave abated that there were less than normal numbers of deaths being recorded presumably because some poor folks had died earlier. So that adjusts the figure a little more.
the same will undoubtedly be true after this wave subsides.
I know a lot of people on here dont want to accept these things but it doesn't alter the fact that they remain true.

The seocod thing is when comparing UK's death trate to other countries we need to be careful that we compare like with like. We don't know how other countries may be gathering and collating their information nor how they may massage figures for domestic consumption

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

What I'm taking from this is Mark Drakeford put finances over health. If Lockdown was so essential, then it should not matter whether we had furlough or not.

and for the record, since you don't know, WG has been pumping money into Welsh business since March 2020 so there was no reason why it had to rely on the furlough scheme, when it has had several rates/grant schemes of its own. The money could have been given to business just through a different mechanism.

WG chose not to enter lockdown, citing HMT as the reason, but that just does not hold up when WG has been using its own funds to support Welsh business all through lockdown

talk about desperate.

[Feedback]

Re: Coronavirus update

talk about desperate.

if stating facts is desperate then so be it. you clearly were not aware that WG had been providing support to business using their own funds, they could have done the same to push through a firebreak but chose not to.

[Feedback]

Re: Coronavirus update

I'm not trying to diguise anything. That fact is that 100,000 people have not been directly killed by the virus. The majority would have died anyway sooner rather than later, given the figures on underlying health conditions. As I said what matters is the excess deaths and whilst these or some of them may be attributable to government acting too late, the figure is nowhere near the 100,000 that people are using as a stick to beat people with. And of those excess deaths some are certainly attributal to the acts or omissions of central government and some to devolved governments.

Two other points: It was recorded in the summer when the first wave abated that there were less than normal numbers of deaths being recorded presumably because some poor folks had died earlier. So that adjusts the figure a little more.
the same will undoubtedly be true after this wave subsides.
I know a lot of people on here dont want to accept these things but it doesn't alter the fact that they remain true.

The seocod thing is when comparing UK's death trate to other countries we need to be careful that we compare like with like. We don't know how other countries may be gathering and collating their information nor how they may massage figures for domestic consumption

we don't know what the true Covid19 death count is, but this article has a good graphic that tries to explain various measurements of Covid19 deaths

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55814751

[Dorcus]

Re: Coronavirus update

USA has just recently reached the tragic milestone of 200,000 Covid deaths. This in a country where the loony previous administration's mismanagement of the crisis has rightly attracted global distain. One wonders how many more would have succumbed had they taken the former President's advice and ingested disinfectant.

The USA has a population 5 times greater than the UK so in broad terms even if we had only suffered 40,000 deaths our Government should have been ashamed of their failure. Just what perspective does that put on losing 100k people? "Eat out to help out", "Get back to work if you're able", "Have yourselves a merry little Christmas'..... criminal?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

You only have to look at the number of cases to see that lockdowns work. Monkfish has said before there is no scientific evidence they work - it's nonsense to say that.

Are they fun? Do we want them? Do we want them for months on end? Obviously no.

Are they successful in reducing cases, which is the point? Yes.

Are there other, awful side effects of lockdowns? Yes.

But they absolutely work.

What are lockdowns ? Essentially they are designed to stop people mixing in a way that they will pass the virus onto another person. If I can go into Tesco with a mask on, then there's no logical reason why I shouldn't go into a pub, restaurant, Department Store, where control measures are ten times stricter. On top of that, the lack of external social interaction that the majority of us crave has increased the need to visit people/families in their own homes. I seriously doubt they've worked. We're over a year into this with 100,000 dead. Even if any of our leaders, medical or political though the same, I doubt they would risk being lyched by admitting it now.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

USA has just recently reached the tragic milestone of 200,000 Covid deaths. This in a country where the loony previous administration's mismanagement of the crisis has rightly attracted global distain. One wonders how many more would have succumbed had they taken the former President's advice and ingested disinfectant.

The USA has a population 5 times greater than the UK so in broad terms even if we had only suffered 40,000 deaths our Government should have been ashamed of their failure. Just what perspective does that put on losing 100k people? "Eat out to help out", "Get back to work if you're able", "Have yourselves a merry little Christmas'..... criminal?

We have an ageing population with more obesity that most Countries. We also have one of the highest population densities in Europe. Three major factors

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Coronavirus update

What are lockdowns ? Essentially they are designed to stop people mixing in a way that they will pass the virus onto another person. If I can go into Tesco with a mask on, then there's no logical reason why I shouldn't go into a pub, restaurant, Department Store, where control measures are ten times stricter. On top of that, the lack of external social interaction that the majority of us crave has increased the need to visit people/families in their own homes. I seriously doubt they've worked. We're over a year into this with 100,000 dead. Even if any of our leaders, medical or political though the same, I doubt they would risk being lyched by admitting it now.

Shopping in a supermarket involves a more essential activity than visiting a pub and restaurant - and people visiting the latter two establishments would remove their masks as well. The former represents a calculated risk but opening bars and restaurant would increase that risk. And the consumption of alcohol would increase the risk factor even more.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

What are lockdowns ? Essentially they are designed to stop people mixing in a way that they will pass the virus onto another person. If I can go into Tesco with a mask on, then there's no logical reason why I shouldn't go into a pub, restaurant, Department Store, where control measures are ten times stricter. On top of that, the lack of external social interaction that the majority of us crave has increased the need to visit people/families in their own homes. I seriously doubt they've worked. We're over a year into this with 100,000 dead. Even if any of our leaders, medical or political though the same, I doubt they would risk being lyched by admitting it now.

**** me how do you still not get it

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

USA has just recently reached the tragic milestone of 200,000 Covid deaths. This in a country where the loony previous administration's mismanagement of the crisis has rightly attracted global distain. One wonders how many more would have succumbed had they taken the former President's advice and ingested disinfectant.

The USA has a population 5 times greater than the UK so in broad terms even if we had only suffered 40,000 deaths our Government should have been ashamed of their failure. Just what perspective does that put on losing 100k people? "Eat out to help out", "Get back to work if you're able", "Have yourselves a merry little Christmas'..... criminal?

I am afraid the US death toll is over double that above 400k

[Feedback]

Re: Coronavirus update

USA has just recently reached the tragic milestone of 200,000 Covid deaths. This in a country where the loony previous administration's mismanagement of the crisis has rightly attracted global distain. One wonders how many more would have succumbed had they taken the former President's advice and ingested disinfectant.

The USA has a population 5 times greater than the UK so in broad terms even if we had only suffered 40,000 deaths our Government should have been ashamed of their failure. Just what perspective does that put on losing 100k people? "Eat out to help out", "Get back to work if you're able", "Have yourselves a merry little Christmas'..... criminal?

I take your point but the Covid19 deaths in the USA is 425k as of today, not 200k. Its still not as bad as the UKs rate but its pretty grim.

"Dine out, help out" was a policy that was lauded at time, and helped a lot of business. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

Why does the welsh government being useless get the U.K. government off the hook for being absolute shite and killing 100,000 people

So the government has killed 100000 people? Is this the most ridiculous comment yet?

[jon1959]

Re: Coronavirus update

Someone earlier in the thread was disputing the 100,000 deaths figure because it comes from deaths within 28 days of a positive test, and was saying 'excess deaths' is the only reliable measure of the effect of Covid. In the autumn there was a fair difference between the two measures, but now they are almost the same:

3 measures Covid deaths.jpg

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

So the government has killed 100000 people? Is this the most ridiculous comment yet?

100,00 excess deaths due to negligence from the government.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I cannot believe that HM Gov are still procrastinating about people arriving in the UK from abroad. Apart from British citizens who need to come back (although I would ask why are you abroad in the first place and why do you want to come back at this particular moment - presumably for some essential reason?), no-one should be allowed in at all, forget all this self isolation in hotels stuff. We are an island and yet we have the highest number of COVID deaths in Europe.