We really should have a General Election.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

Of course Parliament chooses the Prime Minister. Its been that way since Walpole.

The PM is the individual that commands a majority of sitting MPs. By default that is usually the leader of the party with the majority.

This Prime Miinister is only in the job because of the votes of Conservative party members :facepalm:

[Feedback]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

Stop digging.

You're confusing the office of Prime Ninister with the leader of a party. The two are not the same.

We've had situations in the past where the leader of the party isn't PM. I think we are about to see this again: Truss remains leader of the party but Hunt has the support of the majority of MPs

[Feedback]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

This Prime Miinister is only in the job because of the votes of Conservative party members :facepalm:

Almost correct. Truss as leader of the Tories is PM. Truss can remain leader of the Tories but if she doesn't have the support of the majority of MPs she will no longer be PM.

Do you really think the leader of the party with the parliamentary majority is automatically the Prime Minister?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

Not in Parliament she didn’t - John McDonnell and Michael Meacher were candidates for the leadership in 2007, Meacher dropped out and McDonnell failed to attract sufficient endorsements to go forward. He needed to get 12.5 per cent of MPs votes, but only got twenty odd while Brown got 300 plus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli..._election_(UK)

I sit corrected.

[jon1959]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

You're confusing the office of Prime Ninister with the leader of a party. The two are not the same.

We've had situations in the past where the leader of the party isn't PM. I think we are about to see this again: Truss remains leader of the party but Hunt has the support of the majority of MPs

Almost correct. Truss as leader of the Tories is PM. Truss can remain leader of the Tories but if she doesn't have the support of the majority of MPs she will no longer be PM.

Do you really think the leader of the party with the parliamentary majority is automatically the Prime Minister?

If you really want to tie yourself in this knot, why not just say the monarch of the day appoints the Prime Minister - not the voters, not the party members not the MPs of the majority party and certainly not Parliament.

Whatever might have happened in the past or could happen in the future, in this case Liz Truss is Prime Minister because she got more Tory members (not a majority) to vote for her than Sunak. She was not the choice of most Tory MPs and certainly not the choice of Parliament as a whole. And that process is starting to become a feature of modern UK politics.

In my opinion it does raise questions of legitimacy and mandate, and it does justify calls for a General Election.

That was the view of a Tory MP I listened to on 5 Live yesterday too. They are terrified of losing their seats, but some are even more worried about a backlash against them from the public if they appear to be imposing social and financial chaos (and picking heads of government) without reference to the electorate.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

While on holiday with your family, you're bringing up a post I made over two years ago - and you think that reflects badly on me???

Go and do something more fun than this. Holidays aren't cheap.

What's wrong with browsing your club's message board for half hour while on holiday? Or are holidays with you all organised FUN FUN FUN...

[Feedback]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

If you really want to tie yourself in this knot, why not just say the monarch of the day appoints the Prime Minister - not the voters, not the party members not the MPs of the majority party and certainly not Parliament.

Whatever might have happened in the past or could happen in the future, in this case Liz Truss is Prime Minister because she got more Tory members (not a majority) to vote for her than Sunak. She was not the choice of most Tory MPs and certainly not the choice of Parliament as a whole. And that process is starting to become a feature of modern UK politics.

In my opinion it does raise questions of legitimacy and mandate, and it does justify calls for a General Election.

That was the view of a Tory MP I listened to on 5 Live yesterday too. They are terrified of losing their seats, but some are even more worried about a backlash against them from the public if they appear to be imposing social and financial chaos (and picking heads of government) without reference to the electorate.

There's no knot Jon, you're clearly not familiar with the constitutional concept of "command of confidence". The individual who can control the majority in the commons is the prime minister. Typically this is the leader of the party that has the majority (or the largest in a coalition), but it is not always the case.

We are seeing Liz Truss have her authority eroded, and given the majority of conservative MPs are now supporting Hunt, he is de facto Prime Minister and will soon be calling the legislative agenda.

Your reference to the monarch is a red herring, as the appointment to become Prime Minister by the Monarch is purely ceremonial.

You'll no doubt recall that Corbyn had the majority of party members behind him, but if he did not have the support of the PLP then he could not govern (assuming Labour held the majority).

[the other bob wilson]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

Almost correct. Truss as leader of the Tories is PM. Truss can remain leader of the Tories but if she doesn't have the support of the majority of MPs she will no longer be PM.

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?455139-We-really-should-have-a-General-Election/page4

Do you really think the leader of the party with the parliamentary majority is automatically the Prime Minister?

Truss was beaten in every poll of MPs during the leadership election - I would have thought that tells you that she has never had the backing of a majority of MPs. Therefore, she had to have a majority in the poll of members to win - it was impossible for her to do so otherwise :facepalm:

[Feedback]

Re: We really should have a General Election.

Truss was beaten in every poll of MPs during the leadership election - I would have thought that tells you that she has never had the backing of a majority of MPs. Therefore, she had to have a majority in the poll of members to win - it was impossible for her to do so otherwise :facepalm:

Agreed. I'm not sure of what point you are making here, if one at all.

Just to be clear, no one is disputing that to become leader of the Tory party, you need a majority of party members to vote for you. What is in dispute is that the leader of the party automatically becomes Prime minister. This is most certainly not the case. You're not alone in thinking this, but its a quirk of our unwritten constitution on how the PM is chosen.