Official Ashes Thread

[TWGL1]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

You're correct about his series average mirroring his career average. Although I think what those averages also show are how poorly a lot of the other pacemen have done. There won't be many series where broad has performed better over 5 games than vastly superior bowlers like Jimmy, cummins and Hazelwood.

Broad leaves now with a '600 wicket, legend' legacy. If he stayed and hit a flat spell then there's a fair chance that his legacy would be looked at very differently. His career average certainly doesn't have him anywhere near exalted company

His “career average” has improved particularly in the last 5 years. He is also a player that performs on the big stage and they are the players that are respected.

Alistair Cook said on TMS about Broad last night , if you played against him in County Cricket you would often wonder how he had taken 600 Test wickets as he often bowled within himself. Statistics aren’t everything, unless you’re Geoffrey Boycott.

[Hilts]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

You're correct about his series average mirroring his career average. Although I think what those averages also show are how poorly a lot of the other pacemen have done. There won't be many series where broad has performed better over 5 games than vastly superior bowlers like Jimmy, cummins and Hazelwood.

Broad leaves now with a '600 wicket, legend' legacy. If he stayed and hit a flat spell then there's a fair chance that his legacy would be looked at very differently. His career average certainly doesn't have him anywhere near exalted company

I cant be having Josh Hazelwood as vastly superior to Stuart Broad. I dont think the other 2 are either though can take they may be better.

Broad is an all time great who has had an incredible career.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

His “career average” has improved particularly in the last 5 years. He is also a player that performs on the big stage and they are the players that are respected.

Alistair Cook said on TMS about Broad last night , if you played against him in County Cricket you would often wonder how he had taken 600 Test wickets as he often bowled within himself. Statistics aren’t everything, unless you’re Geoffrey Boycott.

Stats aren't everything, but you're the one that brought them up.

[TWGL1]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Stats aren't everything, but you're the one that brought them up.

I didn’t bring them up you did and you have been proved wrong on stats alone.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I cant be having Josh Hazelwood as vastly superior to Stuart Broad. I dont think the other 2 are either though can take they may be better.

Broad is an all time great who has had an incredible career.

Personally I think Cummins and Anderson are different level to broad. I don't think Cummins has been anywhere near his best this series, but his record in tests is fantastic. I do think Broad has been lucky to keep the likes of woakes and wood out the side on occasions in the past. Although his performance this series has been very good indeed.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I didn’t bring them up you did and you have been proved wrong on stats alone.

'proved wrong' on a subjective opinion of where a player compares to his peers. Aye mate, you've beaten me hands down. I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe the links to the stats were in your post, unless I'm really missing something here.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Stuart Broad is an all time great. He’s got 600 wickets. He always turns up, he’s one of the best players of his generation and he’s almost certainly going out as the leading wicket taker in an Ashes series at 37. A lot of Aussies say that Broad is a much harder bowler to face. Him and Jimmy walk into every England side ever, and Broad walks into every side in the world now.

[TWGL1]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

'proved wrong' on a subjective opinion of where a player compares to his peers. Aye mate, you've beaten me hands down. I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe the links to the stats were in your post, unless I'm really missing something here.

You mentioned his bowling average in your post , hence the links provided. He has improved year on year when most go in decline. His bowling average in the last 5 years is up there with the best.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

You mentioned his bowling average in your post , hence the links provided. He has improved year on year when most go in decline. His bowling average in the last 5 years is up there with the best.

I did mention his bowling average. It's an average, allied with what I've seen and felt from watching cricket that doesn't have him in my personal list of modern day 'greats'. The mcgraths, Jimmy's, steyns, rabadas, Cummings of the world. For me he's a level well below those guys. I don't understand why you can't disagree without having to make it personal , loads of other people disagree with my sentiment on broad and set out proper reasons why. You just seem to need an argument whenever you can find one.

[TWGL1]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I did mention his bowling average. It's an average, allied with what I've seen and felt from watching cricket that doesn't have him in my personal list of modern day 'greats'. The mcgraths, Jimmy's, steyns, rabadas, Cummings of the world. For me he's a level well below those guys. I don't understand why you can't disagree without having to make it personal , loads of other people disagree with my sentiment on broad and set out proper reasons why. You just seem to need an argument whenever you can find one.

How many reasons do you want , I’ve given you a simple explanation, with his average. Cricket is all about opinions so, it’s hardly personal.
Perhaps your “ bow to your superior knowledge” got the reply it deserved.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

How many reasons do you want , I’ve given you a simple explanation, with his average. Cricket is all about opinions so, it’s hardly personal.
Perhaps your “ bow to your superior knowledge” got the reply it deserved.

Totally agree, It is all about opinions, which is why ideas and comments about 'being proved wrong' are so stupid and needless. But it's not really fair for the 2 of us to carry on arguing on a decent thread, so maybe we should both stop needling each other.




As a slightly related afterthought . As for out there opinions, I don't think anything anyone could say on a message board could even compete with real life.
Stokes made a comment before the ashes that seemed to suggest a young Alistair Cook wouldn't get in this current England side.

To be fair to him, it was a ballsy thing to say and has been somewhat backed up in the way that England's approach has unnerved the aussies. Although I personally think a young Alistair Cook would and should be welcome in any test side. I do wonder if a few members of the press pack are holding that comment up their sleeves to try and beat him with at a later point in time.

[Father Dougal]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I was really surprised bookies were offering single figure odds of this being a draw. Doubt there will be any more play today and iffy forecast tomorrow also.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I did mention his bowling average. It's an average, allied with what I've seen and felt from watching cricket that doesn't have him in my personal list of modern day 'greats'. The mcgraths, Jimmy's, steyns, rabadas, Cummings of the world. For me he's a level well below those guys. I don't understand why you can't disagree without having to make it personal , loads of other people disagree with my sentiment on broad and set out proper reasons why. You just seem to need an argument whenever you can find one.

McGrath is a previous generation. Broad didn’t play a test match until McGrath had retired. Broad is slightly worse than some mentioned, to say he is well below them is laughable. The bloke has SIX HUNDRED test wickets.

Saw one comment, he’s only been good since 2013. That’s ten bloody years :hehe:

[Hilts]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Havent watched any of today.

Why is Wood only now coming on.?? I presume hes carrying an injury cant be tactical.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Did anyone else watching the minutes before play started today think it was really crass the way Nasser Hussein (who I like far more as a pundit than I did as a player) was being interviewed about fifteen yards from where David Warner was stood and he carried on about how many times Broad had got him out. Whatever else he is, Warner is a fighter and I’m sure remarks like that would have got his competitive juices flowing.

Warner’s just got to 50 and Australia are over a 100 for 0 on a day which started strangely with Broad and Anderson turning down easy singles seemingly to protect the other from having to face.

As for Broad, surely any argument starts and ends with the number of wickets he’s got? I’d also say that he was a very dangerous batsmen as well until the serious blow to his head when the ball got stuck inside his helmet sustained against India.