Robinson and Colwill.

[Rjk]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

They both have until January at least to force their way into the first team through their displays in training and as substitutes. They will both understand what is required so lets see what they can do. I don't tihnk it is beyond either of them, and at least one of them will have a significant part to play by the end of the season.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

You say you’re not naive enough, but that is exactly the word I’d use to describe your posts in this thread (which is obviously unlike you).

I think it’s pretty straightforward.. and I don’t think it’s anything to do with ‘splits’ (I’d leave that sort of thinking to rugby). If you have the ball, the other team can’t score so when you don’t have it anywhere on the pitch you work your bollocks off to win it back. When you then marry that attitude with the flair the more creative players bring you probably increase your chances of scoring. You obviously need aptitude too but in my opinion attitude nearly always out trumps aptitude

You talk about flair players, who were the flair players in the starting eleven which played Watford?

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

Remember when people criticised Lee Tomlin and then when a manage actually started him and gave him a chance he dragged us to the playoffs pretty much single handedly.

Taarabt would be benched under Bulut, as would probably Bothroyd, maybe even Whittingham.

At some point you just have to let your #10s and strikers be attacking players and let them do what they do best. Robinson to me has always seemed like a hard worker, he's had loads of injuries recently and if he isn't playing regularly of course he won't look match fit.

Colwill is a player who could potentially win us games by himself, we've seen him score for Wales, vs Liverpool, winner vs QPR and Forest. 15 minutes here or there isn't good enough for a player like him. Give him 10 games to see what he can do, if after that Bulut still isn't happy send him out on loan.

If I were Colwill I'd try and get away for the sake of my career, it looks like he just won't be given a chance here and we will regret it.

I also think that Tanner hasn't improved much, that's not a criticism, I think he was always this good but he was just never given a chance. I posted about a year ago on here and Twitter saying the same thing about Tanner as I'm saying about Colwill now.

I think you’re right, if you want to play someone like Colwill or even Robinson in that 10 role you have to build the whole team around them and allow them to do their thing, even Ramsey was putting in a good shift. Obviously though that number 10 has to be exceptional like a Tabraat, even a Tomlin. Personally I don’t see Colwill at anywhere near that level yet, I guess the previous managers also don’t think we gain enough to compensate for what we lose.

Tanner has shown how you can adapt, Robinson and Colwill just have to do the same.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

Pushing them to work harder off the ball is fair enough. It's the bluntness we have when they're overlooked and we have a defensive number 10 instead that's annoying people.
He needs to be consistent too (Ugbo, Sawyers).
Hopefully one or both of them can add what he wants to their game with some support from the coaching team.

[Tuerto]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

Exactly he got Tanner to do it, it's not hard just takes a bit more fitness and work rate.

That's a really good shout. Tanner has added that bit too his game and so far so good, And he has become a better player.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

I’m saying yes, you need players who work off the ball, but it seems to me that some of you are happy to-have a team that lacks creativity and flair because everyone is working their bollox off - the question is though what do these grafters do when the onus is on them to do something with the ball?

With Ramsey injured, who have we got who can play in the way a number ten is expected to? Who can offer flair down the wings? I don’t see anyone who fits the number ten role if we are not including Robinson and Colwill (a personal view is that Ralls would be a slight improvement on Wintle). On the wing, Tanner is a potential creative outlet, but I reckon his effectiveness as a forward player if he starts is compromised by the amount of defending he’s having to do.

My point is that I think it’s definitely arguable whether the positives we gain by playing a better defender like Wintle ahead of either Robinson and Colwill offsets what we lose by having a team with as little creativity as the ones we had against Middlesbrough and Watford.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

I’m saying yes, you need players who work off the ball, but it seems to me that some of you are happy to-have a team that lacks creativity and flair because everyone is working their bollox off - the question is though what do these grafters do when the onus is on them to do something with the ball?

With Ramsey injured, who have we got who can play in the way a number ten is expected to? Who can offer flair down the wings? I don’t see anyone who fits the number ten role if we are not including Robinson and Colwill (a personal view is that Ralls would be a slight improvement on Wintle). On the wing, Tanner is a potential creative outlet, but I reckon his effectiveness as a forward player if he starts is compromised by the amount of defending he’s having to do.

My point is that I think it’s definitely arguable whether the positives we gain by playing a better defender like Wintle ahead of either Robinson and Colwill offsets what we lose by having a team with as little creativity as the ones we had against Middlesbrough and Watford.

I don’t think we are playing with a 10 since Ramsey injury, I just think Wintle is pressing higher than the others and we are going through the wings more.

I certainly don’t tho l blackburn away is the time to be trying Colwill or Robinson as a 10. Huddersfield home maybe if people really think they are up to it.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

Bob, you're talking about out and out Defenders. And making the case that what Bulut is asking from Robinson and Colwill are the same things as a dedicated defender. He isn't. What he's saying is that when we are out of possession, Colwill and Robinson need to show more urgency in the third they play in to win the ball back, he's not asking them to slot in at fullback, double up as central defenders, just work there area's in order to disrupt the attack at source. I'm not that keen on him calling players out, but in my opinion he's spot on with his observations.

Exactly can't see why people can't see this.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

I don’t think we are playing with a 10 since Ramsey injury, I just think Wintle is pressing higher than the others and we are going through the wings more.

I certainly don’t tho l blackburn away is the time to be trying Colwill or Robinson as a 10. Huddersfield home maybe if people really think they are up to it.

You may be right about Wintle, but then that takes us back to what I said about splits. If Wintle is playing as you say, then that means that we are playing with just three attack minded players and watching Tanner and Grant last week, I wonder if I’m being generous in saying that. When Ramsey was fit, we had another player who maybe wasn’t playing as an out and out attacker, but our striker wasn’t looking as isolated as he did last season, but it had a very 22/23 look to it against Watford. To me, if you play less attack minded players in your team, your chances of scoring have to decrease accordingly.

Finally, I’d think that Robinson has done enough in this division and higher over the last decade to prove he’s capable of playing as a number ten at this level.

[Lord Worcester]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

The Rubin Colwill situation fascinates me. I'll pin my colours to the mast straight away and admit I am a huge fan - and quite simply couldn't care if he doesn't track back every single time for 90 mins. Give me what he has got and let the others do the grunt work. Clearly reading this thread more disagree with me than agree - which surprises me. As a young Cardiff academy boy I did think there would be a tendency from the fan base to give a bit of leeway to him - not take it away. But if I was him I would get away from the club at the first opportunity - hard I'm sure given home, family etc etc - but for the sake of his career I would try and find a club and a manager who might just consider the positive, creative things he can do rather than be obsessed with the workaholic, out of possession, tracking back things he can't.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

You may be right about Wintle, but then that takes us back to what I said about splits. If Wintle is playing as you say, then that means that we are playing with just three attack minded players and watching Tanner and Grant last week, I wonder if I’m being generous in saying that. When Ramsey was fit, we had another player who maybe wasn’t playing as an out and out attacker, but our striker wasn’t looking as isolated as he did last season, but it had a very 22/23 look to it against Watford. To me, if you play less attack minded players in your team, your chances of scoring have to decrease accordingly.

Finally, I’d think that Robinson has done enough in this division and higher over the last decade to prove he’s capable of playing as a number ten at this level.

Maybe but he also played in the 3 game win bounce v Coventry, Sunderland and Rotherham. I didn’t see all the Coventry game but many people here complimented how well we played that evening

I agree we miss Ramsey massively but I don’t think the other options including Wintle are up to it if we want to play with a 10.

Huge Robinson fan, but he’s been poor when getting time this season. I’d still try him upfront at some point. Hopefully he just needs a kick up the backside.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

The Rubin Colwill situation fascinates me. I'll pin my colours to the mast straight away and admit I am a huge fan - and quite simply couldn't care if he doesn't track back every single time for 90 mins. Give me what he has got and let the others do the grunt work. Clearly reading this thread more disagree with me than agree - which surprises me. As a young Cardiff academy boy I did think there would be a tendency from the fan base to give a bit of leeway to him - not take it away. But if I was him I would get away from the club at the first opportunity - hard I'm sure given home, family etc etc - but for the sake of his career I would try and find a club and a manager who might just consider the positive, creative things he can do rather than be obsessed with the workaholic, out of possession, tracking back things he can't.

I suppose it depends which way you look at it, if Colwill came from Tranmere academy to us and he was just playing in the U21 I doubt we would be having this conversation. Us fans generally are desperate to have someone come through and make it, he could be a stand out player in time.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

The Rubin Colwill situation fascinates me. I'll pin my colours to the mast straight away and admit I am a huge fan - and quite simply couldn't care if he doesn't track back every single time for 90 mins. Give me what he has got and let the others do the grunt work. Clearly reading this thread more disagree with me than agree - which surprises me. As a young Cardiff academy boy I did think there would be a tendency from the fan base to give a bit of leeway to him - not take it away. But if I was him I would get away from the club at the first opportunity - hard I'm sure given home, family etc etc - but for the sake of his career I would try and find a club and a manager who might just consider the positive, creative things he can do rather than be obsessed with the workaholic, out of possession, tracking back things he can't.

That's why Bulut and Pep are football Managers and you are a plumber/pensioner/doctor/whatever, you'd soon get sick of a few nice Colwill goals and losing three one every week.

If Pep likes his players working as hard without the ball as they do with it, that's good enough for me, it's such a simple concept?

[WJ99mobile]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

Remember when people criticised Lee Tomlin and then when a manage actually started him and gave him a chance he dragged us to the playoffs pretty much single handedly.

Taarabt would be benched under Bulut, as would probably Bothroyd, maybe even Whittingham.

At some point you just have to let your #10s and strikers be attacking players and let them do what they do best. Robinson to me has always seemed like a hard worker, he's had loads of injuries recently and if he isn't playing regularly of course he won't look match fit.

Colwill is a player who could potentially win us games by himself, we've seen him score for Wales, vs Liverpool, winner vs QPR and Forest. 15 minutes here or there isn't good enough for a player like him. Give him 10 games to see what he can do, if after that Bulut still isn't happy send him out on loan.

If I were Colwill I'd try and get away for the sake of my career, it looks like he just won't be given a chance here and we will regret it.

I also think that Tanner hasn't improved much, that's not a criticism, I think he was always this good but he was just never given a chance. I posted about a year ago on here and Twitter saying the same thing about Tanner as I'm saying about Colwill now.

But that's not how were set up to play. And to say about Bothroyd is laughable when you watch Ugbo

[Lord Worcester]

Re: Robinson and Colwill.

That's why Bulut and Pep are football Managers and you are a plumber/pensioner/doctor/whatever, you'd soon get sick of a few nice Colwill goals and losing three one every week.

If Pep likes his players working as hard without the ball as they do with it, that's good enough for me, it's such a simple concept?

The classic 'you're not a football manager' argument when someone has a different opinion. And of all the comparisons made the Pep one makes me laugh the most. Got to be honest, I never fully appreciated that if Rubin played we are guaranteed to lose 3-1. Now I know.