The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

[Loramski]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

I agree with the mix of players for this formation has to be right. especially as we are using a double pivot in midfield - if the wing backs are defenders first then we would basically have 7 outfield players to defend and only 3 to attack.
that makes our attacks far too predictable and it is impossible to create any sort of pressure. so the ball is continually coming back at the defence.
when the u23s have used the formation well in recent weeks the wing backs have always joined in the attacks and overlapped. the extra options in attack has meant that when attacks break down its quickly recycled into another attack. we didn't see that at all against Huddersfield.
if the wing backs are too defensive, it is actually worse for our defence, as the whole team gets pinned back.

Good post. Even with four at the back I never really get whether a player like Peltier should be commended for his defensive ability or criticised because he's offering so little going forward that he's inviting pressure up his side.

I certainly wasn't advocating five defensive players in a back five, just saying I haven't got a problem if McCarthy would rather have a full back who can push on than a winger or midfielder in that position. It would seem to offer more flexibility that way if you want to change to a four or if you're under pressure late in a game. As you say though, it does need to be the right type of full back or you're never going to create enough pressure and chances.

[Rjk]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Good post. Even with four at the back I never really get whether a player like Peltier should be commended for his defensive ability or criticised because he's offering so little going forward that he's inviting pressure up his side.

I certainly wasn't advocating five defensive players in a back five, just saying I haven't got a problem if McCarthy would rather have a full back who can push on than a winger or midfielder in that position. It would seem to offer more flexibility that way if you want to change to a four or if you're under pressure late in a game. As you say though, it does need to be the right type of full back or you're never going to create enough pressure and chances.

Yep I agree - nothing wrong with it being a full back in there - as long as they are a genuine 2-way player so they can influence the game going forward. Joe Bennett for example was doing really well before his injury.

[Loramski]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Yep I agree - nothing wrong with it being a full back in there - as long as they are a genuine 2-way player so they can influence the game going forward. Joe Bennett for example was doing really well before his injury.

I think him and Ng would've struggled to get forward much on Friday. I reckon the wing backs' effectiveness is largely dependant on the team playing well as a whole rather than the other way round although I might be talking rubbish there.

Highlights of the under-23s win over Watford are here.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/video/player/0_icn59gxl?feed=f5d2eca5-ff32-4b10-b5a5-cd503863359f&section=7a1af227-58ac-4975-b26a-cc2bf408ded3

[Rjk]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

I think him and Ng would've struggled to get forward much on Friday. I reckon the wing backs' effectiveness is largely dependant on the team playing well as a whole rather than the other way round although I might be talking rubbish there.

Highlights of the under-23s win over Watford are here.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/vide...a-cc2bf408ded3

It was interesting to note that yesterday RB Leipzig, (who play 3-4-2-1 formation that I think clearly indicates that Nagelsmann is a student of the Mick McCarthy way of playing) opted for a winger and a defensive midfielder as their 2 wing backs - and had 2 fullbacks and one centre back in the back 3.


Fair enough that didn't work for them either, but I think it shows the opposite end of whatever spectrum starts with us having 4 centre backs on the pitch + whatever Sang is and ends with their 1 centre back and 2 full backs.

[Loramski]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

It was interesting to note that yesterday RB Leipzig, (who play 3-4-2-1 formation that I think clearly indicates that Nagelsmann is a student of the Mick McCarthy way of playing) opted for a winger and a defensive midfielder as their 2 wing backs - and had 2 fullbacks and one centre back in the back 3.


Fair enough that didn't work for them either, but I think it shows the opposite end of whatever spectrum starts with us having 4 centre backs on the pitch + whatever Sang is and ends with their 1 centre back and 2 full backs.

Definitely, I can imagine there are plenty of ways to play that system. I've no idea what McCarthy is thinking in terms of next season but playing four centre halves and then having to bring on Pack for Wilson because central midfield is getting overrun is a bit worrying looking forward.

I don't want to be too cynical about McCarthy yet. He can pretty much only play the cards he's been dealt for now, results have been great and he's stuck a couple of youngsters in when Warnock wouldn't have. Hopefully he'll decide there's another answer to the problem of players continually turning over possession other than just bringing on more players to win it back.

He only needs to keep watching the under-23 and Academy games to realise there's a different way forward here. Talented youngsters coming through and some of them have been playing the same kind of football together since they were 7 or 8. As I said earlier, he's watching them play and train regularly now so he'll know what they're about. Even if some of them don't turn out to be as good as expected, the least we should be doing is moving towards a style of play that will give them every opportunity to flourish.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

For those of us who watch our under 23s playing three at the back with wing backs on a good day and hope that is the way Mick McCarthy will go when he’s got chance to start building his own team there are contrasting signals. His championing and inclusion of Aden Flint endorses a three stopper type centre backs approach and based on what we’ve seen of Flint and Nelson in the past eighteen months and Morrison for almost seven years says the sort of playing out from the back that we see from the younger players will not be possible or advised in the first team - it also should be said that our goals for and against with Flint, Nelson and Morrison at the back, albeit over a relatively short time, is very good and there has to be a likelihood that breaking up the current to bring in a “passer” at the back would see a reduction in goals from set pieces.

As for wing backs, I’d say it was more encouraging in terms of playing more football while Ng and Bennett were playing there. I would be in favour of us using two players more at home at full back if those two were available given the general ineffectiveness of our wingers over the past three seasons, but Bennett’s injury has put the kibosh on that. If Osei-Tutu could play on the left, I’d get him in the team as soon as possible to play left wing back, but I wonder about whether he’d be ready to do so much before early to mid April.

[City123]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

For those of us who watch our under 23s playing three at the back with wing backs on a good day and hope that is the way Mick McCarthy will go when he’s got chance to start building his own team there are contrasting signals. His championing and inclusion of Aden Flint endorses a three stopper type centre backs approach and based on what we’ve seen of Flint and Nelson in the past eighteen months and Morrison for almost seven years says the sort of playing out from the back that we see from the younger players will not be possible or advised in the first team - it also should be said that our goals for and against with Flint, Nelson and Morrison at the back, albeit over a relatively short time, is very good and there has to be a likelihood that breaking up the current to bring in a “passer” at the back would see a reduction in goals from set pieces.

As for wing backs, I’d say it was more encouraging in terms of playing more football while Ng and Bennett were playing there. I would be in favour of us using two players more at home at full back if those two were available given the general ineffectiveness of our wingers over the past three seasons, but Bennett’s injury has put the kibosh on that. If Osei-Tutu could play on the left, I’d get him in the team as soon as possible to play left wing back, but I wonder about whether he’d be ready to do so much before early to mid April.

Ng is comfortable on his left so he could go in there whilst Osei-Tutu goes to right back

Due to his age I imagine Nelson is the safest of the 3 in terms of keeping his place, 27 isn't particularly old for a centre back. Morrison is 30 so we will have to plan for someone to replace him whilst at 31 (32 in the summer) Flint is probably the one who will make way first. Brown is probably lined up to come in for him and would provide more balance to have a left footed player in there. I wouldn't be against trying Pack out in defence in pre season

[Rjk]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

For those of us who watch our under 23s playing three at the back with wing backs on a good day and hope that is the way Mick McCarthy will go when he’s got chance to start building his own team there are contrasting signals. His championing and inclusion of Aden Flint endorses a three stopper type centre backs approach and based on what we’ve seen of Flint and Nelson in the past eighteen months and Morrison for almost seven years says the sort of playing out from the back that we see from the younger players will not be possible or advised in the first team - it also should be said that our goals for and against with Flint, Nelson and Morrison at the back, albeit over a relatively short time, is very good and there has to be a likelihood that breaking up the current to bring in a “passer” at the back would see a reduction in goals from set pieces.

As for wing backs, I’d say it was more encouraging in terms of playing more football while Ng and Bennett were playing there. I would be in favour of us using two players more at home at full back if those two were available given the general ineffectiveness of our wingers over the past three seasons, but Bennett’s injury has put the kibosh on that. If Osei-Tutu could play on the left, I’d get him in the team as soon as possible to play left wing back, but I wonder about whether he’d be ready to do so much before early to mid April.

Yes it is probably naïve optimism on my part that we went to this formation to try and play some more football, rather than to get the maximum number of cloggers on the pitch at the same time.
I live in hope though

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

City’s Under 18s are 1-0 up on Colchester at Leckwith after 45 minutes thanks to a goal by Taz Mayembe.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Finished 5-0, second half goals from Crole, Schwank, Kavanagh and Jones.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Taz Mayemebe, Taylor Jones and Tom Davies named in the Wales Under 18 squad for a game against England on 29 March, but disappointingly, there's no City representation in the Under 17 squad named for a training camp during the international break.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Our under 23s are away at QPR today, kick off 2 o clock - nothing to indicate that QPR will be providing live coverage.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Tomlin starting again for the Development team, but no Osei-Tutu (surely he’s not going to be involved tonight?)3214239B-B05A-4F65-B60E-84995D701166.jpg

[Stanmore Bluebird]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Hope Jordi isn’t injured again.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Hope Jordi isn’t injured again.

I suppose there’s three possibilities, he’s injured, he’s still working on his fitness or he’s involved tonight, I’d say that the last one is the outsider of the three.

No score at half time.