Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

[tforturton]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

Something has changed at Cardiff in recent months. Harris came in and turned around an underachieving side, but twelve months on, we seem to be back where we started. We can all see what's wrong with the team, so there's no doubt that both Harris and his players can see it as well. So what do they need to do?
From where I'm sitting, I look at the team on paper, and it looks like a pretty good team - one that should be competing at the top end of the table. Individually, we have a good set of players, but they don't seem to be gelling very well, and they aren't able to produce the results that the line-up would suggest are possible.

[MacAdder]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

Bacuna doesn't look like he's trying. Trotting back into position, not getting tight enough and allowing the cross, zero urgency bravery to put himself in a position where he might get done, he doesn't want to know, look how easily players go past him. I know that he's not very good, but he's getting off lightly in my opinion with fans saying that he's not a right back. He may well not be, that doesn't stop him showing some commitment to the cause, he's even stopped kicking players. Looks to me like he's downed tools a bit.

Looking at the body language, the demeanour of the players, the lack of urgency and belief, the feeling that after 10 minutes the whole team has run out of ideas, tells me that something ain't right.

The same can be said about any of our defence, defensive midfield too for that matter.
We have conceded some really poor goals this season, something that wasn't there, or if it was it wasn't obvious, last season.
Too many people unwilling, or not knowing how, to get a block in or stop a cross.

That could be down to the fact that Bacuna is a right sided midfielder and not a natural right sided defender which has disrupted the defence in general, but I doubt it as he has put in some good performances this season.

Unfortunately, the depth of quality there and in other key positions that most saw as a potential problem early on, is playing out.

I have to agree with the OP (lthough not having seen the interview myself so taking it as written) to blame a player, who has now left us, in a game that happened before the latest loss is a cheap shot, but an understandable one from a man who seems to be staring down the barrel, again.

[City123]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

Do you think the current team available for selection has enough obvious and proven quality to be anywhere other than mid table?

I dont.

In fact some of the 11 are the quality that will take you down.

I don't buy the idea that our players are awful or relegation quality. The majority of our current strongest XI got us into 5th last season. 3 were key players in our promotion campaign, 2 are Welsh internationals who will certainly be going to the Euros in the summer. The keeper is widely acknowledged as one of the best in the division. Its not a bad side at this level

[Tuerto]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

The same can be said about any of our defence, defensive midfield too for that matter.
We have conceded some really poor goals this season, something that wasn't there, or if it was it wasn't obvious, last season.
Too many people unwilling, or not knowing how, to get a block in or stop a cross.

That could be down to the fact that Bacuna is a right sided midfielder and not a natural right sided defender which has disrupted the defence in general, but I doubt it as he has put in some good performances this season.

Unfortunately, the depth of quality there and in other key positions that most saw as a potential problem early on, is playing out.

I have to agree with the OP (lthough not having seen the interview myself so taking it as written) to blame a player, who has now left us, in a game that happened before the latest loss is a cheap shot, but an understandable one from a man who seems to be staring down the barrel, again.

I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

I think its clear how important Tomlin was for us.

Having him in the team also helped the likes of Ralls and Bacuna.

Yes, the Tomlin of last season has been a big miss and I agree about Ralls especially who I'd say is having his worst season for a while.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

I think its clear how important Tomlin was for us.

Having him in the team also helped the likes of Ralls and Bacuna.

We've 'strengthened' in every department except centre midfield - the engine room of a side. With Tomlin absent there's nothing there to trouble teams.

[Mr Soul '68]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

but surely there is a less cowardly manager available.

Joey Barton

Seriousness though, I agree with every word you have written here. I want him gone asap. Who do we replace him with though? Any decent European managers out there?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

I agree entirely with your second paragraph. At the moment we're poor at the things we're usually good at, that's why I brought up the matter of the players getting away with things - I would have thought Neil Harris would have been taking things like that for granted at the start of the season.

Can I ask you as someone who has a better idea than most of us of how pros feel about the game given your time with the club, would there be any resentment at having to play in what is still a pretty regimented manner for a side that gives the impression at times that it does not want to have the football week in, week out, season in season out? If it was me, I'd hate having to play like we do all of the time, but then I've only ever played the game for enjoyment, do those who play it for a living have an attitude which says they pay my wages so I do what I'm told unquestioningly, or do they look at other clubs that play in a more progressive and entertaining manner and think that could be me?

[RonnieBird]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

Yes, but isn't that because he's NOT a full back and he's doing his best to cover a position he's been asked to fill in for?
He knows he'd get beaten if he closed in on his man all the time so he's doing the next best thing and trying to close him down a bit and still stay active in the play.
Can't blame him for that. I think he's done well covering there on the odd occasion but he shouldn't be expected to do it every week.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

Adam Matthews and Dave Jones comes to mind.

Benkovic is gone though and he did feck up.

The only thing re Matthews is that we now know that he was quite unprofessional and plenty of players told him to sort himself out. Gabbs spoke about it on Elis James' Feast of Football openly. He really should have kicked on, and perhaps Jones was exasperated with him. Jones rarely dug anyone else out (I could be wrong about that, it was 10 years ago!)

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

This is why Harris needs to go, the players have quit on him.

[Tuerto]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

I agree entirely with your second paragraph. At the moment we're poor at the things we're usually good at, that's why I brought up the matter of the players getting away with things - I would have thought Neil Harris would have been taking things like that for granted at the start of the season.

Can I ask you as someone who has a better idea than most of us of how pros feel about the game given your time with the club, would there be any resentment at having to play in what is still a pretty regimented manner for a side that gives the impression at times that it does not want to have the football week in, week out, season in season out? If it was me, I'd hate having to play like we do all of the time, but then I've only ever played the game for enjoyment, do those who play it for a living have an attitude which says they pay my wages so I do what I'm told unquestioningly, or do they look at other clubs that play in a more progressive and entertaining manner and think that could be me?

Well, it was a long time ago, and the game has moved on massively, and i didn't get to any great heights on the playing side of things, although i was around professionals for a decent period of time. Most of the players i was around couldn't really play anyway I can recall certain players being more professional than others, Alan Curtis, Ian rodgerson, George wood and Leigh Barnard. Those players cared about their preparation and they stayed out after training. They also spoke about the game and how they thought it should be played, even if, at times, they didn't have the ability to implement it.

The game wasn't as technical back then, although i do remember arguments in training, especially from midfield players who would get frustrated at the ball going long from fullbacks etc, although that was what Burrows and Ashurst wanted. I'd say that most of the playing staff weren't that concerned with the style of play back then as long ball was the norm, and most of them (including myself, although i did like to play) didn't have the ability to carry out a more passing, technical based style.

From my point of view (and that of other young players that were at the club at the same time) the training and coaching was shit, it squeezed any amount of ability out of a player, it was all about hitting channels. The youth-reserve team coach was Bob Smith, he wasn't a nice man at all, a bully, we reported him to our PFA rep (Nick Platneaur) at the time, but nothing came of it.

Do i think that players care? Some more than others, most didn't really give a shit and were just after a contract in my opinion.

[Tuerto]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

Yes, but isn't that because he's NOT a full back and he's doing his best to cover a position he's been asked to fill in for?
He knows he'd get beaten if he closed in on his man all the time so he's doing the next best thing and trying to close him down a bit and still stay active in the play.
Can't blame him for that. I think he's done well covering there on the odd occasion but he shouldn't be expected to do it every week.

It's because he doesn't fancy it. He's only being asked to get a bit tighter and to make the opposition player think a bit, narrow his options. He's not interested in my opinion.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

While we have all witnessed some absolutely awful managers I can't remember ever having a manager as cowardly as Harris.

He is odious and a coward.

Reading his interview after the Forest defeat was embarrassing.

Blaming a player, who is no longer with us, for conceding two goals against Wycombe is a cowardly act. The Wycombe game was last week and he should have been concentrating on the defeat against Forest this weekend. It's pathetic blaming a player who he doesn't have to look in the eye today at training. Leicester won't be loaning us players anytime soon, so there will be longer term ramifications of not using a loan signing and slagging him off the moment he leaves the club.

Also, nearly all of his comments and excused about the games we lose is about 'conceding a soft goal'. He rarely blames his teams inability to keep the ball, pass the ball, the poor tactics, the poor substitutions, lack of energy, lack of pace etc... why? because all of those things reflect HIS management style and approach... and it is easier for him to blame individual mistakes as it shifts responsibility away from his own failures and onto individuals.

I know people have pointed out the lack of managerial options out there to replace him, but surely there is a less cowardly manager available.

Do you realise that Brendan Rodgers has also called out Benkovic in public? I doubt that Harris has burned any bridges with Leicester by doing the same.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

The only thing re Matthews is that we now know that he was quite unprofessional and plenty of players told him to sort himself out. Gabbs spoke about it on Elis James' Feast of Football openly. He really should have kicked on, and perhaps Jones was exasperated with him. Jones rarely dug anyone else out (I could be wrong about that, it was 10 years ago!)

Do you know which episode it was?