UPDATED: David Henderson - Found guilty.

[Lawnmower]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Because it will influence the outcome of the dispute between City & Nantes. Who asked McKay, who was he working on behalf of? Remember City offered him a commercial flight which he or someone on his behalf declined. For the transfer fee I believe it’s the crux of the whole case.

I think the key thing is, we know the McKay’s asked Henderson to organise the flight, but did they know he operated in such a dodgy way and also did they know he was using Ibbertson.

Then that link needs to be made between McKay and Nantes.

Long way to go yet, but 2 things stand out for me.

1. City were right to want to find out what happened before paying. They seem to be victims in this too

2. A poor lad has died here, due to someone taking insane chances for a quick buck. It’s horrendous. Not forgetting the pilot, although it’s looking like he was partly to blame himself.

[IanD]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

I think the key thing is, we know the McKay’s asked Henderson to organise the flight, but did they know he operated in such a dodgy way and also did they know he was using Ibbertson.

Then that link needs to be made between McKay and Nantes.

Long way to go yet, but 2 things stand out for me.

1. City were right to want to find out what happened before paying. They seem to be victims in this too

2. A poor lad has died here, due to someone taking insane chances for a quick buck. It’s horrendous. Not forgetting the pilot, although it’s looking like he was partly to blame himself.

Throw into the mix the owner's liability for maintaining the plane. If I recall correctly, the aircraft was serviced 3 months before the crash. However, it was so old, and in need of repair immediately prior to the accident, that the airworthiness of the aircraft has to be questioned, too. Therefore, owners are liable in part. Especially as carbon monoxide poisoning has been found as contributing to the accident.

[lardy]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Why are people worrying about who sorted the flight.
Again, just like sorting a taxi for your mate , or a private mini bus, you'll expect the company to be legit , you don't ask to see anyone licence.

Everything is useful information. What if they were using them because they know they are cheap, and know WHY they are cheap. What if there are some other corners being cut.

People who deal with whoever sorted the flight in future have the right to know if they were completely in the dark about the illegality of the flight, or whether they knew and didn't care.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Do professional sportsmen and sportswomen have clauses in their clubs' insurance contracts where they have cover only it travelling on approved airlines?

[Vindec]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Throw into the mix the owner's liability for maintaining the plane. If I recall correctly, the aircraft was serviced 3 months before the crash. However, it was so old, and in need of repair immediately prior to the accident, that the airworthiness of the aircraft has to be questioned, too. Therefore, owners are liable in part. Especially as carbon monoxide poisoning has been found as contributing to the accident.

Don't forget the fact the pilot was unlicensed to fly a plane at night. CCFC were "in the process" of signing Sala, offered Sala a scheduled flight until a third party intervened and the agent concerned was acting on behalf of Nantes. I can't see how the club could be liable for anything.

[life on mars]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Because it will influence the outcome of the dispute between City & Nantes. Who asked McKay, who was he working on behalf of? Remember City offered him a commercial flight which he or someone on his behalf declined. For the transfer fee I believe it’s the crux of the whole case.

Absolutely , surely it comes down to duty of care of an employee , question is which employer , would insurance companies look at those due responsibilities , and who is liable for that responsibility and decision making that resulted in the awful incident ?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Don't forget the fact the pilot was unlicensed to fly a plane at night. CCFC were "in the process" of signing Sala, offered Sala a scheduled flight until a third party intervened and the agent concerned was acting on behalf of Nantes. I can't see how the club could be liable for anything.

No doubt the legal case will be less of an open and shut case than is imagined on here. None of us knows the contractual status in reality.

[life on mars]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

And Henderson is involved with the day to day operations of the aircraft.
Have you read the BBC story?
The day after the crash he's texted engineer saying " ibbos killed himself and a vip pax, don't say a word"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58965072?at_campaign=KARANGA&at_medium=RSS

On the night the plane went missing, Mr Goudie said Mr Henderson sent a text message to an aircraft engineer saying "don't say a word", and asked others to keep quiet because "questions may be asked about his flying".


Another text to a different recipient said: "Ibbo has crashed the Malibu and killed himself and VIP pax! Bloody disaster. There will be an enquiry [sic]."

Mr Goudie said: "It's clear on the evidence that [Mr Henderson] knew Mr Ibbotson well, frequently discussed his qualifications with him and knew he was deficient."

[gabbsthenewt]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

This is the £15m question. If McKay was acting for Cardiff we pay, if he was acting for Nantes, we don't. If he was acting for Sala, god knows how it gets resolved!

I can't settle on the £15m question being simply - who was McKay/(in turn - Henderson) acting on behalf of.

The agent's duties would be deemed to have had a beginning and end - in Nantes opinion they clearly believe the deal had been completed during the weekend while he is pictured with Choo signing forms and doing the ayatollah at the CCS. They would of course therefore maintain these flights between Sala and McKay were organised acting on behalf of Sala and Sala only. (I can only make out that it McKay's agency to book the flight was certainly not on Cardiff City's behalf in any case).

On negligence - it's quite clear Dave Henderson is absolutely done for, that's about all I can fathom clearly from the ongoing case.

On paying the £15m - it has already been considered and ruled upon by Fifa's Players Status Committee that the transfer had completed - we of course countered that it hadn't been complete as they hadn't completed his registration with the PL - to which of course comes the counter - that's up to you to do once he is your player - Cardiff City's own look out to get completed and not part of the completion of a transfer - you could probably own a player but not register them indefinitely.

As for redress to CCFC from the court/Insurance monies - I've seen people say nah Insurance would have been voided by the fact the plane wasn't air worthy and the pilot wasn't adequately qualified - it's not clear what insurance they are addressing there! I would have thought the club would have had insurance of Sala himself established during that weekend and I would be majorly surprised if it didn't cover such sort of a incident. Although of course a definitive answer regards that can only be made with reference to the full detail of the insurance policies and its clauses.

[WJ99mobile]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

I can't settle on the £15m question being simply - who was McKay/(in turn - Henderson) acting on behalf of.

The agent's duties would be deemed to have had a beginning and end - in Nantes opinion they clearly believe the deal had been completed during the weekend while he is pictured with Choo signing forms and doing the ayatollah at the CCS. They would of course therefore maintain these flights between Sala and McKay were organised acting on behalf of Sala and Sala only. (I can only make out that it McKay's agency to book the flight was certainly not on Cardiff City's behalf in any case).

On negligence - it's quite clear Dave Henderson is absolutely done for, that's about all I can fathom clearly from the ongoing case.

On paying the £15m - it has already been considered and ruled upon by Fifa's Players Status Committee that the transfer had completed - we of course countered that it hadn't been complete as they hadn't completed his registration with the PL - to which of course comes the counter - that's up to you to do once he is your player - Cardiff City's own look out to get completed and not part of the completion of a transfer - you could probably own a player but not register them indefinitely.

As for redress to CCFC from the court/Insurance monies - I've seen people say nah Insurance would have been voided by the fact the plane wasn't air worthy and the pilot wasn't adequately qualified - it's not clear what insurance they are addressing there! I would have thought the club would have had insurance of Sala himself established during that weekend and I would be majorly surprised if it didn't cover such sort of a incident. Although of course a definitive answer regards that can only be made with reference to the full detail of the insurance policies and its clauses.

A much more reasoned outlook. I still think we will end up paying.

[WJ99mobile]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Why are people worrying about who sorted the flight.
Again, just like sorting a taxi for your mate , or a private mini bus, you'll expect the company to be legit , you don't ask to see anyone licence.

So if this happened 2 years into a contract would we be going back to Nantes for our money back?

[gabbsthenewt]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

I can't settle on the £15m question being simply - who was McKay/(in turn - Henderson) acting on behalf of.

The agent's duties would be deemed to have had a beginning and end - in Nantes opinion they clearly believe the deal had been completed during the weekend while he is pictured with Choo signing forms and doing the ayatollah at the CCS. They would of course therefore maintain these flights between Sala and McKay were organised acting on behalf of Sala and Sala only. (I can only make out that it McKay's agency to book the flight was certainly not on Cardiff City's behalf in any case).

On negligence - it's quite clear Dave Henderson is absolutely done for, that's about all I can fathom clearly from the ongoing case.

On paying the £15m - it has already been considered and ruled upon by Fifa's Players Status Committee that the transfer had completed - we of course countered that it hadn't been complete as they hadn't completed his registration with the PL - to which of course comes the counter - that's up to you to do once he is your player - Cardiff City's own look out to get completed and not part of the completion of a transfer - you could probably own a player but not register them indefinitely.

As for redress to CCFC from the court/Insurance monies - I've seen people say nah Insurance would have been voided by the fact the plane wasn't air worthy and the pilot wasn't adequately qualified - it's not clear what insurance they are addressing there! I would have thought the club would have had insurance of Sala himself established during that weekend and I would be majorly surprised if it didn't cover such sort of a incident. Although of course a definitive answer regards that can only be made with reference to the full detail of the insurance policies and its clauses.

Actually funnily enough I started by saying "I can't settle on the £15m question being who was McKay acting on behalf of" - reading it indeed that is the key question - but obviously it's not simple - if you were to read the situation per how it's gone so far through the sporting courts - currently rulings to date have concluded that the move had completed and the flight wasn't made on behalf of anyone but Sala himself - his travelling back to Nantes was his own choice and journey.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

A much more reasoned outlook. I still think we will end up paying.

Yes, I agree, it’s so hard to think otherwise after that picture and announcement from the club three days before Sala died.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: David Henderson goes on trial over charges linked to plane crash which killed Emiliano Sala

Do professional sportsmen and sportswomen have clauses in their clubs' insurance contracts where they have cover only it travelling on approved airlines?

Probably not quite that, but excluding travel in single engine planes, or at least reducing the potential pay out, is common.