Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

I'm 99 per cent sure he was talking about the Spiked article, not Marina Hyde's.

I'm gonna add my 1%!

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

No one loses their shit by making lists of why they disagree with TOBW. I've seen Millwall and Bristol City fans lose their shit in Cardiff city centre before. Not once did they produce a list of their objections

I do like that image though. "right then chaps, item number 1" *whilst reading from clipboard*. "You're sh*t and you know you are."

[life on mars]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Lots of conversation leaking out about Iran resolving ongoing fuel shortages ,wholesale costs dropping ,who did Boris meet in the middle East ?

[life on mars]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

pardon

bless you

[JamesWales]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

I do like that image though. "right then chaps, item number 1" *whilst reading from clipboard*. "You're sh*t and you know you are."

Item number 2. Please note the bushwhackers are not responsible for phone bills linked to the booking of your homeward ambulance journey

[az city]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

For someone who never stops telling us all how reasonable and balanced your opinions are, you do tend to lose it when your views are challenged.

But when Jimbo offers her/his views s/he tends to confuse fact with opinion. Oh and s/he always has to have the last say. (Bet s/he pops up in two ticks...)

It seems to me there is an undercurrent of pro-establishment racist misogyny around the criticism of Nazanin's intelligent unwillingness to bend the knee. I think Marina Hyde has partially captured that.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

But when Jimbo offers her/his views s/he tends to confuse fact with opinion. Oh and s/he always has to have the last say. (Bet s/he pops up in two ticks...)

It seems to me there is an undercurrent of pro-establishment racist misogyny around the criticism of Nazanin's intelligent unwillingness to bend the knee. I think Marina Hyde has partially captured that.

[Dorcus]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Marina Hyde's piece was brilliant and gives a depressing commentary on a huge segment of British society these days.

[jon1959]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

You can draw a full circle of far left and right politics and they end up at the same point fascists, Marxists ,neo socialist even Liberals in some societies .

Interesting book :

https://jonahgoldberg.com/liberal-fascism/

Go on, I'll bite.

That tedious book based on an out of context comment from HG Wells does not make the argument that 'far left' and 'far right' end up at the same point. It is a popular view (TOBW seems to share it in another post) but in my view it is nonsense - other than an observation that people outside the establishment and outside control of state institutions (until they gain control) will use similar methods of organisation, propaganda and protest.

The only way it is not nonsense is in the sense that when 5,000 German communists were caged in Dachau on 21 March 1933, they occupied the same space as several hundred Nazi guards. Very few of those communists (or the other communists, socialists, trades unionists that followed them into the 'far right' death camps - especially but not only the Jewish ones) survived the experience of their co-existence when the two ends of your circle met.

[AfricanBluebird]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Oh give us a break. I don't even believe you think this at all - it's just a lazy trope. The same could be said of any criticism of Liz Truss (a woman) or Priti Patel (A woman of colour). You may be obsessed with peoples skin colours. Most people aren't.

You're in complete denial if you don't believe there is a problem with the British psyche when it comes to black and brown people - especially women. If Nazanin had been white with a traditional 'English' name and raised important points about why she was held for 6 years while her own government did nothing, apart from make it worse, there wouldn't be the same distasteful media responses. If you can't see that, then honestly you are a part of the problem.

The double standards are clear. Look at the media and Meghan Markle... astonishing.

https://www.boredpanda.com/uk-media-double-standarts-royal-meghan-markle-kate-middleton/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Go on, I'll bite.

That tedious book based on an out of context comment from HG Wells does not make the argument that 'far left' and 'far right' end up at the same point. It is a popular view (TOBW seems to share it in another post) but in my view it is nonsense - other than an observation that people outside the establishment and outside control of state institutions (until they gain control) will use similar methods of organisation, propaganda and protest.

The only way it is not nonsense is in the sense that when 5,000 German communists were caged in Dachau on 21 March 1933, they occupied the same space as several hundred Nazi guards. Very few of those communists (or the other communists, socialists, trades unionists that followed them into the 'far right' death camps - especially but not only the Jewish ones) survived the experience of their co-existence when the two ends of your circle met.

Top post. Second paragraph is brilliant Jon.

[JamesWales]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

You're in complete denial if you don't believe there is a problem with the British psyche when it comes to black and brown people - especially women. If Nazanin had been white with a traditional 'English' name and raised important points about why she was held for 6 years while her own government did nothing, apart from make it worse, there wouldn't be the same distasteful media responses. If you can't see that, then honestly you are a part of the problem.

The double standards are clear. Look at the media and Meghan Markle... astonishing.

https://www.boredpanda.com/uk-media-...mpaign=organic

I completely disagree with you and you are stirring the race pot with zero evidence whatsoever.

Two of the three most important positions in running the UK are held by people of Asian heritage, one of whom is a woman. Of course, you are allowed to criticise her without being racist, but no one is capable of criticising someone else without being racist?

Meghan Markle isn't criticised in the media because she has a black mother. No more than Diana, or Harry, or Fergie or Andrew or Charles or Camilla Parker Bowles were criticised for being white.

Theres just zero evidence to this stuff and you seem determined to create divisions based on skin colour when none exist (in this instance). Thats not to deny that some people in Britain are racists but its unhealthy to tie your obsession with it to everyone else.

You are basically saying no one can criticise anyone of colour because its racist (unless they are a Tory of course, in which case its fine!)

[JamesWales]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

But when Jimbo offers her/his views s/he tends to confuse fact with opinion. Oh and s/he always has to have the last say. (Bet s/he pops up in two ticks...)

It seems to me there is an undercurrent of pro-establishment racist misogyny around the criticism of Nazanin's intelligent unwillingness to bend the knee. I think Marina Hyde has partially captured that.

It's just ironic coming from you, because we've had numerous discussions, I always cite them with economic data, you literally never do.

And you always like to have the last say. I bet you pop up in two ticks..

[xsnaggle]

Re: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

You're in complete denial if you don't believe there is a problem with the British psyche when it comes to black and brown people - especially women. If Nazanin had been white with a traditional 'English' name and raised important points about why she was held for 6 years while her own government did nothing, apart from make it worse, there wouldn't be the same distasteful media responses. If you can't see that, then honestly you are a part of the problem.

The double standards are clear. Look at the media and Meghan Markle... astonishing.

https://www.boredpanda.com/uk-media-...mpaign=organic

I do have a problem with the phrase. Like it or nor Iran is also her own government and as she chose/chooses to remain an Iranian citizen she is subject to Iran's laws, whether those laws agree with our sentiments or not.
In accordance with their own laws they had every right to detain change sentence and imprison her, and in international law they do nothing wrong.
The justification for their actions and the moral argument about their view of the world are different matters.
They also had every right to completely ignore any pleas from UK to release 'it's ' citizen but they chose instead to engage with the UK Government for their own ends.
If they had said "She is Iranian and it is nothing to do with anyone else then completely ignored any attempt to discuss it there would have been nothing anyone could have done about it.
Instead of automatically blaming the government inaction or being slow why not consider that they continued to make efforts and eventually succeeded?