Michael Gove.

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

I watched it twice and what you're saying doesn't make sense.

He talks about a budgeting course and a cooking course (great idea, nobody is knocking that James so calm down a bit and concentrate on what I'm saying). The 30p per day quote is in regards to how much people can prepare food for.

If it wasn't, then what's the point in people learning to cook and to budget when they can go and buy a hot, fresh meal for 30p.

Hence me being confused about you talking about volunteers cooking it.

Go and watch the video again and try to make sense of what you're saying.

:hehe: I'm perfectly calm. :-) You remind me of an old passive-aggresive uncle of mine, who used to start every debate by saying 'calm down'. My auntie threw a glass of wine at him at a party once, so maybe he did have a point!? :sherlock:

Anyway, it seems to me he is saying that:

1 / they provide meals that can be done for 30p - I think that is doable if unpaid staff do it (ie volunteers) in a large part due to economies of scale

2 / It also seems they will provide courses to help people prepare and cook meals for 30p. I do think this is tougher, but as long as the person cooking it at home isn't paid (as none of us are when we cook our own meals- ie, effectively "a volunteer" then it is also just about doable.

Either way, helping those who come in budget and cook better (as the dastardly Tory MP was saying) is a good thing. It's far more useful than people on the internet turning it into yet another chance to wheel out tropes about the government.

[Tito Fuente]

Re: Michael Gove.

:hehe: I'm perfectly calm. :-) You remind me of an old passive-aggresive uncle of mine, who used to start everything by saying 'calm down'.

Anyway, it seems to me he is saying that:

1 / they provide meals that can be done for 30p - I think that is doable if unpaid staff do it (ie volunteers) in a large part due to economies of scale

2 / It also seems they will provide courses to help people prepare and cook meals for 30p. I do think this is tougher, but as long as the person cooking it at home isn't paid (as none of us are when we cook our own meals- ie, effectively "a volunteer" then it is also just about doable.

Either way, helping those who come in budget and cook better (as the dastardly Tory MP was saying) is a good thing. It's far more useful than people on the internet turning it into yet another chance to wheel out tropes about the government.

I was just mirroring how you speak to other posters when you accuse them of being angry. You did it to Doucas the other day, in case you've forgotten? Something about him spitting all over his keyboard while angrily typing. It's been pointed out to you before that you say it frequently.

I give up if you are going to persist continuing to change the meaning of what the MP said so that it can mean several things that suit your argument, instead of what he said actually being offensive and incorrect.

Budgeting and cooking courses are
an excellent idea (as I already said) as long as one actually has enough money to budget in the first place.

Carry on regardless Mr Wales. You know best.

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

I was just mirroring how you speak to other posters when you accuse them of being angry. You did it to Doucas the other day, in case you've forgotten? Something about him spitting all over his keyboard while angrily typing. It's been pointed out to you before that you say it frequently.

I give up if you are going to persist continuing to change the meaning of what the MP said so that it can mean several things that suit your argument, instead of what he said actually being offensive and incorrect.

Budgeting and cooking courses are
an excellent idea (as I already said) as long as one actually has enough money to budget in the first place.

Carry on regardless Mr Wales. You know best.

Have you actually read the stuff that Doucus says and what he calls people with different views? I havent seen you call it out and it's very bigoted often personal stuff. If you only call it out when it's against you, then you aren't calling it out at all.

It's not totally clear what the MP said, which is why I broke it down; it could mean one of two things. Both of which are probably true in that meals could be done for 30p.

Glad you agree that it sounds like a good scheme they run at the foodbank in question, and lets hope some MP's take up the offer to visit.

I don't know best, but I know that listening, talking, understanding, debating, looking at statistics is the way to solve problems, rather than blindly blaming something that may not be the main issue, but makes people feel good to say it.

[Pearcey3]

Re: Michael Gove.

The point is, the UK government is responsible for benefits in every nation/region in the UK. And yet there are glaring disparities nationwide, and those where they have far less responsibility (in transport, education, economic devt, healthcare, housing) the need for foodbanks is far worse.

I wasn't accusing you of not caring. I was answering your questions. I do think people who just use any situation of suffering and make a lazy political argument devoid of facts are guilty of caring more about politics than helping people. If you want to solve a problem, you look at the facts.

You have no idea how I vote, but I had three votes last week, and I assure you one of those went to a centre-left party. And as I said, you view it as consistently punching down on the most needy, but I have stated four facts here;

1 / the tories raised minimum wage more than labour
2 / the tories raised the tax threshold on lowest paid more than labour
3 / the tories typically get more working class people in jobs than labour
4 / the need for foodbanks is demonstrably higher in places where the tories have the least control over the levers of power.

Notice, I won't accuse you of voting for a party that consistently punches down, but the evidence isnt great.

The Tories voted against the minimum wage. Just like they voted against having an NHS.
They may have raised the income tax threshold but then reduced benefits elsewhere
Have you evidence to prove the Tories get more working class people into work than Labour?
The need for food banks is clearly higher in areas of poverty and in case you hadn’t noticed there were precious few foodbanks in existence prior to 2010. Now they are everywhere.

How anyone can defend a Govt full of millionaires who were forced to make a uturn to allow starving children free school meals is beyond me. They are morally bankcrupt liars and in case you hadn’t noticed they are in power far more than Labour so they take the blame for the depressing state of the UK.

[Tito Fuente]

Re: Michael Gove.

Have you actually read the stuff that Doucus says and what he calls people with different views? You never call it out and it's very bigoted stuff. If you only call it out when it's against you, then you aren't calling it out at all.

It's not totally clear what the MP said, which is why I broke it down; it could mean one of two things. Both of which are probably true in that meals could be done for 30p.

Glad you agree that it sounds like a good scheme they run at the foodbank in question, and lets hope some MP's take up the offer to visit

I took the piss out of him the other day for something he said about you. It's not just Doucas you patronisingly accuse of getting angry though. You must have forgotten that you do it.

Varied and healthy meals are not getting made in people's homes for 30p with the best budgeting and will in the world. As I said, it'll cost you 30p just to use your oven or hob.

Bye.

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

I took the piss out of him the other day for something he said about you. It's not just Doucas you patronisingly accuse of getting angry though. You must have forgotten that you do it.

Varied and healthy meals are not getting made in people's homes for 30p with the best budgeting and will in the world. As I said, it'll cost you 30p just to use your oven or hob.

Bye.

Now who's angry..

:getscoat:

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

The Tories voted against the minimum wage. Just like they voted against having an NHS.
They may have raised the income tax threshold but then reduced benefits elsewhere
Have you evidence to prove the Tories get more working class people into work than Labour?
The need for food banks is clearly higher in areas of poverty and in case you hadn’t noticed there were precious few foodbanks in existence prior to 2010. Now they are everywhere.

How anyone can defend a Govt full of millionaires who were forced to make a uturn to allow starving children free school meals is beyond me. They are morally bankcrupt liars and in case you hadn’t noticed they are in power far more than Labour so they take the blame for the depressing state of the UK.

You are right - a previous government did many years ago - But now they support it and have raised it by more than the opposition ever did.

Benefits have gone up and down.

Some evidence here on reduced unemployment under the Tories

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-which-party-has-a-better-track-record-on-the-economy

Foodbanks have risen across the world in recent years. It's not a good thing, but the fact they are universal and the fact they are worse in areas where the Cons have less control over means to eradicate poverty, may suggest other factors are at play. There will be many, but the global financial crisis was a gamechanger.

The tories didn't vote to not feed starving school kids - they botched the vote but are actually the only party at a UK level to ever actually do it - free school meals in the holidays were never a thing before Covid. Don't believe everything Angela Rayner says.

The UK isn't necessarily in a depressing state - have you compared us to other countries?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Michael Gove.

I have noticed that Left wingers do love to politicise foodbanks.

Staggering reply.

Foodbanks move state help to charity status.

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

Staggering reply.

Foodbanks move state help to charity status.

It's not a staggering reply. I think it's true. Certain people like to exploit them for political purposes.

As explained,
1 / They exist across Europe and the world and have grown at broadly the same rates irrespective of government colour in those countries.
2 / They are more prominent in parts of the UK where the UK govt has less control over poverty reduction (ie, healthcare, job creation, education, transport etc)

ergo, for people to just lazily blame the UK government is politicising it and not getting to the root of the problem. It is NOT helping to solve the problem. It's politicising it but not helping the issue as the issues go way beyond who is in power in Westminster. The UK govt are undoubtedly part of the story, but not the whole story.

This is a classic example, where the MP we are discussing is saying the foodbank he volunteers at requires people to undertake a course in budget management and cookery - wholly positive things that will only help people over the long term, whilst also helping in the immediate short term. He's right in what he says.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Michael Gove.

It's not a staggering reply. I think it's true. Certain people like to exploit them for political purposes.

As explained,
1 / They exist across Europe and the world and have grown at broadly the same rates irrespective of government colour in those countries.
2 / They are more prominent in parts of the UK where the UK govt has less control over poverty reduction (ie, healthcare, job creation, education, transport etc)

ergo, for people to just lazily blame the UK government is politicising it and not getting to the root of the problem. It is NOT helping to solve the problem. It's politicising it but not helping the issue as the issues go way beyond who is in power in Westminster. The UK govt are undoubtedly part of the story, but not the whole story.

This is a classic example, where the MP we are discussing is saying the foodbank he volunteers at requires people to undertake a course in budget management and cookery - wholly positive things that will only help people over the long term, whilst also helping in the immediate short term. He's right in what he says.

It's still moving essential necessities from state help to charity help. In other words, if you're hungry, can't afford to eat, the state won't help you. You're reliant on charity help.

[az city]

Re: Michael Gove.

He's absolutely right. A foodbank that teaches people how to cook well with ingredients is a better one than one that doesnt.

Great example of a bad headline from the BBC aiding the culture war, and the usual pile ons, but he is spot on

Great optic this: out-of-touch millionaire politician wanker patronizes the poor and indigent.

Out of interest, when do you think was the last time the no-mark Tory cooked for himself?

Fair play to you, Jimbo, you are as assiduous in defending the Tories as Lavrov to Putin.

[az city]

Re: Michael Gove.

They are in existence and have grown in every country though.
And they occur more frequently in two of the three regions/nations in the UK that have devolved (non Tory) governments.

So the evidence would suggest that the lazt narrative of 'iTs aLl tHe ToreYs fAUlT" clearly isn't true. And if it isnt true, then we won't find a solution.

So no, I think a lot of people are more interesting in making political capital out of the situation rather than genuinely helping.

There's loads of issues at play, it's complex, but quite clearly helping families and individuals to cook better and to make food go further is a good thing. Damn site more helpful than middle class people on twitter getting angry at the bloke who said it.

Now you're being clearly disingenuous and ridiculous.

You know for a fact that Tory areas are generally wealthier and therefore are less likely to have as many foodbanks.

Stop pretending you aren't biased and a paragon of unbiased reason. You aren't. Nowhere near.

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

It's still moving essential necessities from state help to charity help. In other words, if you're hungry, can't afford to eat, the state won't help you. You're reliant on charity help.

I never said it was a good thing. The point is to change it and produce a system that best helps people in the long run

[JamesWales]

Re: Michael Gove.

Great optic this: out-of-touch millionaire politician wanker patronizes the poor and indigent.

Out of interest, when do you think was the last time the no-mark Tory cooked for himself?

Fair play to you, Jimbo, you are as assiduous in defending the Tories as Lavrov to Putin.

Textbook stuff. Avoid the points being made and make some loose comments about millionaires, oh and make some cheap comment about Putin too. A+ Prof! The MP in question is a former miner and he is suggesting that food banks where people are enrolled on budget and cookery courses are better than those that don't. Do you disagree?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Michael Gove.

Didn’t put this on the politics board because I don’t think it’s political really - made me laugh.

https://youtu.be/XBQCPZOnxF4

He's very odd?