This Eu vaccine row

[jon1959]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

I think the narrative here is wrong about remainers loving the EU at all costs. People voted to remain in the EU because they thought remaining in a large trading block and allowing freedom of movement was a good thing for the U.K.

It doesn’t mean they don’t think the EU as an organisation needs a big change and isn’t a bunch of *****.

It’s just we did quite a good job of changing them from the inside whereas now we have no say in a trading bloc that has a huge effect on our economy.

There were a lot of different reasons for people to vote Remain. The ones you have put forward about collective weight as a trading bloc and freedom of movement were major ones for a lot of people. But the reason that the Dennis Skinner view had shrunk so much in the labour and trade union movement (certainly compared to the dominant anti-EEC view in the 1970s when it was seen as 'the bosses club') is that the EU in 2016 was seen as the champion and guarantor of employment rights and environmental standards - and as generally progressive. Some of that was myth - much like most of the Brexit arguments - but the TUC and most affiliated unions were persuaded. They also accepted the 'stronger together' pitch, and the need for Europe to hold its own against the USA, China etc. No-one I knew who voted Remain did so without wanting major EU reform

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

There were a lot of different reasons for people to vote Remain. The ones you have put forward about collective weight as a trading bloc and freedom of movement were major ones for a lot of people. But the reason that the Dennis Skinner view had shrunk so much in the labour and trade union movement (certainly compared to the dominant anti-EEC view in the 1970s when it was seen as 'the bosses club') is that the EU in 2016 was seen as the champion and guarantor of employment rights and environmental standards - and as generally progressive. Some of that was myth - much like most of the Brexit arguments - but the TUC and most affiliated unions were persuaded. They also accepted the 'stronger together' pitch, and the need for Europe to hold its own against the USA, China etc. No-one I knew who voted Remain did so without wanting major EU reform

Thanks for that.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

There were a lot of different reasons for people to vote Remain. The ones you have put forward about collective weight as a trading bloc and freedom of movement were major ones for a lot of people. But the reason that the Dennis Skinner view had shrunk so much in the labour and trade union movement (certainly compared to the dominant anti-EEC view in the 1970s when it was seen as 'the bosses club') is that the EU in 2016 was seen as the champion and guarantor of employment rights and environmental standards - and as generally progressive. Some of that was myth - much like most of the Brexit arguments - but the TUC and most affiliated unions were persuaded. They also accepted the 'stronger together' pitch, and the need for Europe to hold its own against the USA, China etc. No-one I knew who voted Remain did so without wanting major EU reform

And my friends also , even those who are left wing tories knew things had to change

But Boris and his mob have been stoking up the fires for years with the likes of Peter Bone on the back benches rallying the troops

I enjoyed listening to Skinner, it was great seeing him stick it to the tories but Benn loved being on Question Time a bit too much for me .

[the other bob wilson]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

I had the utmost admiration for Tony Benn and am also fond of Dennis Skinner.
Far from Bogey Men to me.
Corbyn on the other hand...

I want to see a strong Labour Party that reconnects with its working class voters.

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

Scare their chidren with Stop being so melodramatic!!

[Croesy Blue]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Scare their chidren with Stop being so melodramatic!!

I wonder if he was being 100% serious

[life on mars]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Bloody hell UK vaccinetastic

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

I wonder if he was being 100% serious

He clearyl wasn't but even so.......

[life on mars]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

Doesn't that work both ways with the Labour devotes and their labels with their bad witches that were Thatcher and now Patel or as some call her bad coconut , and the fat ,red faced gammon , boggy men. ??

[the other bob wilson]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Doesn't that work both ways with the Labour devotes and their labels with their bad witches that were Thatcher and now Patel or as some call her bad coconut , and the fat ,red faced gammon , boggy men. ??

I don’t count Wash DC Blue in this because it appears I may have misjudged him, but the reaction my post got is so predictable in that two of the leading few candidates I had in my mind to reply to it did so n a manner which didn’t surprise me.

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

I don’t count Wash DC Blue in this because it appears I may have misjudged him, but the reaction my post got is so predictable in that two of the leading few candidates I had in my mind to reply to it did so n a manner which didn’t surprise me.

Only one problem with that. Other than Wash DC blue I was the only person who replied unless you mean the person you were replying to, in which case why not say so? And I replied only to laugh at your kid comment.
So who is the invisible man?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

You’re really hard work, I meant you and LOM - LOM never misses a chance to knock Labour and, although you get all indignant when people call you a Tory, you don’t half do a good impersonation of one on here if you aren’t one.

Also, that’s the second time in a week I’ve whooshed you - you don’t know me as well as you think you do because you appear to think everything I post on here is meant to be deadly serious.

[goats]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

One by product of this thread is that the Tories on here really need to update their Labour bogymen - Benn and Skinner? One of them has been dead for seven years and the other one will be eighty nine in less than a fortnight! With Corbyn looking like yesterday's man and Livingston no longer a member of the party I believe, who are the Tories going to terrify their children and grand children with stories about what will happen if Labour ever regain power from now on?

They need to get a party together first, as do the Liberals.....I like the libs, swing down the middle and pinch the best bits of the other two twats.....

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

You’re really hard work, I meant you and LOM - LOM never misses a chance to knock Labour and, although you get all indignant when people call you a Tory, you don’t half do a good impersonation of one on here if you aren’t one.

Also, that’s the second time in a week I’ve whooshed you - you don’t know me as well as you think you do because you appear to think everything I post on here is meant to be deadly serious.

I don't know you at all. As for being totally tory I was referred by someone on here the other day as Gethin. That's not very tory is it?
what I dislike is certain people who will attackanything which the Westminster governemtn says without even considering it, just because it is tory.
I've never been a political animal but the level of bile and unthinking prejudice I see here astounds me, honestly!