Joniesta (Jonny Williams - CONFIRMED)

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Joniesta

Of course it does. Stick to politics Crusty you are making yourself look very silly.

I’m not saying it’s a good signing but judging a player by stats doesn’t always tell the full story.

[surge]

Re: Joniesta

The problem with your criteria is that Graham Kavanagh literally meets 3 of the 5.

And that's why I'm not saying we should get excited: there are probably other players who can fit the criteria as well if not better. But I can see at least "a single positive in" this potential signing so am still more positive than negative.

[splott parker]

Re: Joniesta

Just had a quick look at a Charlton forum, pretty split on Williams but one poster suggested we give them Flint. If that’s a deal clincher let’s get cracking!!!

[Tuerto]

Re: Joniesta

If Williams does come, then it's a massive reflection on how bad things have become, and it shows the huge limitations in our midfield, horrendous recruitment by Warnock and to a much lesser degree, Harris. The three we have in there at the moment are pretty damn awful. None of them can carry the ball, go past a player or play a pass and follow it. It comes to something when we're touting an injury prone bit part player without an ounce of form in his bin in order to solve a short term problem. If i was one of Vaulks, Ralls or Bacuna, i'd be struggling to look in the mirror this morning after hearing that bit of speculation. If we do sign Williams then it's indicative of how bad and desperate the whole thing has become-depressing really. I'm at the point where i can't stomach watching our midfield three.

[Heisenberg]

Re: Joniesta

i) fits our budget
ii) fills a need in the squad now or in the immediate future
iii) helps with the aim of playing more football
iv) either meets the aim of bringing squad age down (increasing value, increasing dynamism in squad) or supports the younger players coming through
v) helps us win and climb the table

i) you agree with.

ii) The majority of times I've seen him play for Wales it was an attacking midfielder. At the end of this season we lost three players in this position leaving us with just Murphy (underperformed since signing, hopefully can change that going forward) and Tomlin (can we rely on him?).

iii) Think it's fair to say that Jonny is skillful on the ball. Maybe unproductive but few would question his ability to control, pass, recycle the ball or win free-kicks.

iv) Is there anything we've seen that suggests Jonny would be a positive person around the dressing room and help support younger players coming through? I'd ask if there is anything that doesn't show that because countless documentaries/videos/interviews show he's a good bloke to have around.

v) This is where I think we share some doubts.

I'm not saying get excited just that I think we should be more positive than negative on that basis.

The one criteria for any signing that they need to meet is:
i) improves our squad

He doesn't. He isn't even first choice at Charlton in League One.

Like I said, Graham Kavanagh meets 3 of your 5 criteria. Having read them again, he actually meets 4 as he would be a great influence on younger players.

Unfortunately his legs have gone so wouldn't be a good signing for us now.

This is the problem with your criteria... Thousands of players would meet a lot of the criteria but they would still not be good signings as they are not good enough to play for us.

[Heisenberg]

Re: Joniesta

And that's why I'm not saying we should get excited: there are probably other players who can fit the criteria as well if not better. But I can see at least "a single positive in" this potential signing so am still more positive than negative.

This is going nowhere.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joniesta

I’m not saying it’s a good signing but judging a player by stats doesn’t always tell the full story.

I’m not saying judge on stats alone but they are a bloody good indicator when someone’s stats are so poor.

If this guy wasn’t a Welsh international we would be asking why the **** are we signing a bit part player from Charlton.

At least with Ng he was captain of Crewe and their player of the year. Watters strike rate this season is phenomenal but could be another Eoin Doyle rather than Jamie Vardy, who knows, but at least you can see the clubs thinking.

Jonny Williams, I’m sorry, if he didn’t have the Joniesta nickname and we weren’t familiar with him in Wales we would rightly be asking what the ****ing hell are the club playing at??

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Joniesta

The people who think this is a good idea probably wanted us to sign Joe Ledley when Charlton released him last January.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Joniesta

Apparently, Barnsley are hopeful of keeping him in this transfer window, but even if they don't sell him, he can sign a pre-contract agreement with other clubs because he's over 23 and his existing deal runs out in less than 6 months.

I don't think English and Welsh clubs can do this between other English and Welsh clubs.

[cardiff55]

Re: Joniesta

Apparently, Barnsley are hopeful of keeping him in this transfer window, but even if they don't sell him, he can sign a pre-contract agreement with other clubs because he's over 23 and his existing deal runs out in less than 6 months.

I think they can only sign pre contract agreements with overseas teams 6 months before hand. I know the FA only let PCAs between Premier League teams 1 month before the contract ends. It's a bit vague though and I may well be wrong so don't shoot me. So Joe Bennet could sing contract with Real Madrid(!!) but not Bristol City (this comment will be on the board soon as insider info!!)

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Joniesta

I’m not saying judge on stats alone but they are a bloody good indicator when someone’s stats are so poor.

If this guy wasn’t a Welsh international we would be asking why the **** are we signing a bit part player from Charlton.

At least with Ng he was captain of Crewe and their player of the year. Watters strike rate this season is phenomenal but could be another Eoin Doyle rather than Jamie Vardy, who knows, but at least you can see the clubs thinking.

Jonny Williams, I’m sorry, if he didn’t have the Joniesta nickname and we weren’t familiar with him in Wales we would rightly be asking what the ****ing hell are the club playing at??

I completely agree, if he wasn’t Welsh it wouldn’t be being defended at all.

[surge]

Re: Joniesta

The people who think this is a good idea probably wanted us to sign Joe Ledley when Charlton released him last January.

He'd probably fit two out of my five criteria. I would be more negative than positive about that one.

The three alternative names you've mentioned would be seen as a CM though. Do you think Jonny Williams is being brought here to play CM?

[surge]

Re: Joniesta

The one criteria for any signing that they need to meet is:
i) improves our squad

He doesn't. He isn't even first choice at Charlton in League One.

Like I said, Graham Kavanagh meets 3 of your 5 criteria. Having read them again, he actually meets 4 as he would be a great influence on younger players.

Unfortunately his legs have gone so wouldn't be a good signing for us now.

This is the problem with your criteria... Thousands of players would meet a lot of the criteria but they would still not be good signings as they are not good enough to play for us.

The different between a good signing and a quality signing would be found here.

We had a thread about Arter the other day who would maybe fit just one of the criteria points. More negative than positive about that one.

Is Arter a better player than Ledley? Yes, but both not on the list of players I'd be willing to look at.

[Heisenberg]

Re: Joniesta

The different between a good signing and a quality signing would be found here.

We had a thread about Arter the other day who would maybe fit just one of the criteria points. More negative than positive about that one.

Is Arter a better player than Ledley? Yes, but both not on the list of players I'd be willing to look at.

I honestly think you're trying to hard to justify your position on Jonny Williams.

Give the criteria thing a rest as it's baseless unless the players that meet most of the criteria are any good.

Basically, because he's affordable, is an attacking midfielder and under the age of 30 means your "positive" about the potential of him joining us.

Not incredibly injury prone, not struggling in League One and didn't look poor when he was in the Championship aren't on your criteria for some reason.

If all it takes is being under 30, plays as an attacking midfielder and would cost £200k is all that it takes for you to be positive then there's no point in debating any further.

I find it quite a stubborn and ridiculous viewpoint that wouldn't have been a debating point if Williams had chosen to represent England instead of Wales.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joniesta

I honestly think you're trying to hard to justify your position on Jonny Williams.

Give the criteria thing a rest as it's baseless unless the players that meet most of the criteria are any good.

Basically, because he's affordable, is an attacking midfielder and under the age of 30 means your "positive" about the potential of him joining us.

Not incredibly injury prone, not struggling in League One and didn't look poor when he was in the Championship aren't on your criteria for some reason.

If all it takes is being under 30, plays as an attacking midfielder and would cost £200k is all that it takes for you to be positive then there's no point in debating any further.

I find it quite a stubborn and ridiculous viewpoint that wouldn't have been a debating point if Williams had chosen to represent England instead of Wales.

I think its more about justifying his own transfer policy criteria hes made up.

Id like to think the club take a few more things into consideration than a five bullet point list scribbled down quickly on the back of a fag packet. Then again.....