It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

I can’t believe our wage bill is that big, average championship wage for us….

We've got a few players still on the contracts that they signed after we got promoted in 2018.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

We've got a few players still on the contracts that they signed after we got promoted in 2018.

And Bacuna.

[Llandaff Blue]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

We've got a few players still on the contracts that they signed after we got promoted in 2018.

Yes, 5 to be exact. Ralls and Morrison both signed new deals in 2018/19, Bacuna/Smithies/Murphy are all PL signings and still on the books. Looking beyond that there's Tomlin and Vassell, god knows what they are on but whatever it is it's too much.

There's no way we have an average wage bill in this league, hopefully the club is ruthless next summer and lets the majority of these players go and in turn if it means we're in a better position to get sold then even better.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

I don't know names. All I know is that it was a consortium of Malaysian investors.

In this case, what you know and what you think you know are two different things.

When Vincent Tan initially bought into the club, there were a grand total of three Malaysian investors - Dato Chan Tien Ghee (aka TG), Tan Sri Dato Seri Vincent Tan Chee Yioun (aka Vincent Tan) and U-Jiun Tan (Vincent's son). This much I know for a fact as I have a copy of the club's shareholders list dated 29/08/2011 and registered at Companies House on 29/09/2011.

The amounts of shares bought by those three individuals in their initial investment were as follows:

3,645,455 - U-Jiun Tan
3,824,091 - TG
34,416,825 - Vincent Tan

To put the number of shares bought by TG and U-Jiun Tan into perspective, the fact is that Michael Isaac owned 11,203,211 shares at the time.

There was no Malaysian consortium. It was just Vincent Tan, who put up the lion's share of the money, his business associate TG, who had talked him into getting involved, and his son U-Jiun. In due course, VT significantly increased his personal shareholding to the point where he effectively owned the club outright, TG was sent packing and UT seemed to lose interest and disappeared from the board.

In his first public statement regarding CCFC (released on 14/06/2012), Vincent Tan said: "I first heard of Cardiff City Football Club when my friend and business partner Dato’ Chan Tien Ghee approached me in November 2009 to ask if I would be interested in making an equity investment in a British football club which had the possibility of being promoted to the top flight of English football.

"I knew little of football then and regarded any potential investment as being solely a business decision. To that end I agreed to make an initial investment of £6 million for a 40% stake in Cardiff City Football Club. I then decided to increase my investment, and to date I have invested a total of £40.8 million (comprising £34.8 million in loans and £6 million in equity) in the club."

There never was a consortium of Malaysian investors, just as there never was a hedge fund when Peter Ridsdale and Co ousted Sam Hammam. Both were inventions of the press.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

In this case, what you know and what you think you know are two different things.

When Vincent Tan initially bought into the club, there were a grand total of three Malaysian investors - Dato Chan Tien Ghee (aka TG), Tan Sri Dato Seri Vincent Tan Chee Yioun (aka Vincent Tan) and U-Jiun Tan (Vincent's son). This much I know for a fact as I have a copy of the club's shareholders list dated 29/08/2011 and registered at Companies House on 29/09/2011.

The amounts of shares bought by those three individuals in their initial investment were as follows:

3,645,455 - U-Jiun Tan
3,824,091 - TG
34,416,825 - Vincent Tan

To put the number of shares bought by TG and U-Jiun Tan into perspective, the fact is that Michael Isaac owned 11,203,211 shares at the time.

There was no Malaysian consortium. It was just Vincent Tan, who put up the lion's share of the money, his business associate TG, who had talked him into getting involved, and his son U-Jiun. In due course, VT significantly increased his personal shareholding to the point where he effectively owned the club outright, TG was sent packing and UT seemed to lose interest and disappeared from the board.

In his first public statement regarding CCFC (released on 14/06/2012), Vincent Tan said: "I first heard of Cardiff City Football Club when my friend and business partner Dato’ Chan Tien Ghee approached me in November 2009 to ask if I would be interested in making an equity investment in a British football club which had the possibility of being promoted to the top flight of English football.

"I knew little of football then and regarded any potential investment as being solely a business decision. To that end I agreed to make an initial investment of £6 million for a 40% stake in Cardiff City Football Club. I then decided to increase my investment, and to date I have invested a total of £40.8 million (comprising £34.8 million in loans and £6 million in equity) in the club."

There never was a consortium of Malaysian investors, just as there never was a hedge fund when Peter Ridsdale and Co ousted Sam Hammam. Both were inventions of the press.

You say there were three investors initially. Two or more individuals pooling resources to invest qualifies as a consortium

[WJ99mobile]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

It's another knee jerk reaction from them (I think Mick's hands are somewhat tied) to sell everyone, cut costs anyway possible and use every youth player possible whether they're good enough or not.

Is it weathering the storm post COVID finances? Probably but it's a risky one if we ever did drop down

It's clear there's no long term planning and whilst we could look to Mick and the youth as now a long term planning, I'm not confident that it is anything other than another trial until they change course again

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

You say there were three investors initially. Two or more individuals pooling resources to invest qualifies as a consortium

I think this pandemic has addled your brain. Either that or your Tory tendencies mean you can't admit you were wrong. These three individuals didn't pool their resources to invest in the club. They simply bought individual share blocks.

When you said "Tan didn't purchase the club on his own, he was part of a consortium of investors, and such people do not spend money on a whim," you were trying to paint a very different picture to what actually happened.

You believed there was a genuine consortium of investors as opposed to just Tan, his son and his mate, and a genuine strategy behind the takeover. Neither is true. There was no consortium, there was no strategy and there was no kind of business plan attached to the rebrand whatsoever. Tan's been making this up as he goes along from day one - something that should be blatantly obvious to everyone by now.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

I think this pandemic has addled your brain. Either that or your Tory tendencies mean you can't admit you were wrong. These three individuals didn't pool their resources to invest in the club. They simply bought individual share blocks.

When you said "Tan didn't purchase the club on his own, he was part of a consortium of investors, and such people do not spend money on a whim," you were trying to paint a very different picture to what actually happened.

You believed there was a genuine consortium of investors as opposed to just Tan, his son and his mate, and a genuine strategy behind the takeover. Neither is true. There was no consortium, there was no strategy and there was no kind of business plan attached to the rebrand whatsoever. Tan's been making this up as he goes along from day one - something that should be blatantly obvious to everyone by now.

I think it's your brain that may be addled.
Tan, his son, and a mate each agreeing to buy shares in a co-ordinated way to acquire the club means that they were acting as a consortium.
And if you think that a successful businessman like Tan would just throw money at it without getting some of his numerous advisors to do a risk/ benefit analysis, that's equally naive.
As a businessman he saw a club on its knees. He saw the potential, and he took a business risk. It seemed to be going OK for him too until he tried the rebrand, which rebounded badly.
However he is still working to a plan and it's obvious to all but the myopic few that the club is focussed on cost reduction as the priority.

[The Hooded Claw]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

Maybe someone needs to ask the board just what Tan’s plan is…

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

I think it's your brain that may be addled. Tan, his son, and a mate each agreeing to buy shares in a co-ordinated way to acquire the club means that they were acting as a consortium.

Oh yeah, that's exactly what you meant when you were talking about a consortium of Malaysian investors not spending money on a whim......

Incidentally, your 'consortium' didn't acquire the club. Tan merely acquired a 40% stake in it. His takeover came later.

No doubt some of his advisors did do a risk/benefit analysis. Seems they made a right balls-up of it too, as Vinnie's been pouring money down the drain ever since due the hopeless way in which the club has been run by him, his minions and his managers. He even managed to lose money while in the Premier League, which took some doing.

As for working to a 'plan', that 'plan' appears to have changed on numerous occasions during his tenure. Boom and bust. There never has been an overarching strategy of any kind. Anyone who genuinely believes there has been is an idiot.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

Maybe someone needs to ask the board just what Tan’s plan is…

Maybe the board need to ask Tan what his plan is.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

Maybe Tan should come out and something to the fans.

[Dorcus]

Re: It's time for Dalman and Choo to go

Maybe Tan should come out and something to the fans.

I didn't realize he's gay as well; that's the last straw!