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I just realised that you are doing the same thing YET AGAIN by fabricating more bullsh*t in your last missive.
Your dishonesty seems to be endless.
Come up with specific quotes of mine that back up your three new very specific allegations or just shut up.
Ok, well we agree that physical life is NOT the end for any of us; so let's quit the ping pong comments and let's hear how your (so far unexplained) desire to have this LAD without such a being (who has designed us that way) works and WHY we are beings that will all experience this?Originally Posted by stevo
I'll leave you in your bottle for now as you are obviously incapable of explaining your own standpoint. However as you feel more comfortable speaking with Gofer then maybe you could answer his question now you won't have to spend a section of your day engaging me with something and nothing.
You can't back up your 4 specific fabrications and it's right that you shut up.
Who made you 'god' (?)
About science you said, "It is the antithesis of *religion".
This has already been proven nonsense time and time again with examples such as Maury (Psalm8v8) given for you to read** and then ignore.
*We are only using your understanding of religion in this context.
**God the Creator of all things has clearly demonstrated that the Bible is there to lift the reader to the greatest purpose they can have.
Still looking for a quote from me stating that something came from nothing?
Keep at it.
Science has you boxed in on this one, it has rejected the steady state theory. So everthing including time, space and matter must have a beginning that originates away from the known Universe (this dimension).
So either name that timeless source or stop blathering on for attention.
Still not found a reference to my supposedly stating that something came from nothing then?
Have another go.
Why should I when all you are going to do is quote a 2000+ year old book with no proof?
Our collective consciousness has always existed and always will. Ummm... a bit like what you will say about God. Just take out the 'God' element and I think we will agree on most things. Try replacing the word 'God' with 'collective consciousness' in any of your beliefs and you will find that it works. The only difference between my and your beliefs is that mine are backed up by science and first hand accounts whereas yours are backed up by a 2000+ year old book and NOTHING else.
There are lots of subjects that I have never commented on in this forum but if directly asked to elucidate on something I'd at least have a go, even if the answer might be "I don't know" rather than question the questioner in an attempt to avoid answering the question!*
I'd never make a politician of course.
*(With apologies for the verbosity!)
I couldn't clarify anything about a comment I haver never made but if you have a question I would be happy to answer it.
If it's about what happened before the universe was created I certainly don't know and have never suggested otherwise.
In the meantime, may I ask you if you think it is acceptable for truthpaste to keep posting his repeated fabrications that he cannot provide any evidence for?
I'm still waiting for evidence of his first one before we move onto the three that followed.
I don't have the time nor the energy to look back through the hundreds of comments that TP says you have made but let's look at the three specific examples he makes:
[I]So far you (from your many hundreds of comments on this issue have made it very clear) want your world view to include:-
1. The origin of life cannot NOT be anything to do with any supreme deity who I may meet in the future.
2. The purpose of my life is my choice and nobody else has (or will have) any say in this unless I say so.
3. Life will hopefully end at the moment my heart ceases to function.[/I]
Re point 1: it is quite clear from your posts that you do not believe there is a supreme deity, hence the origin of life cannot be explained by this mechanism.
Re point 2: I cannot recall you saying this in so many words. During my atheist days it is the kind of statement that I would have made myself, so it is not surprising to me that TP might accredit such a remark to atheists in general.
Re point 3: Again I cannot recall you saying this in so many words but I would think anyone who does not believe in an afterlife would agree that human life on Earth ends when the heart stops.
I think it might have been better if TP had put these points forward as direct questions to you i.e.
1. Do you agree that the origin of life has nothing to do with a supreme deity?
2. Do you agree that the purpose of your life is your choice and nobody else has (or will have) any say in this unless you say so?
3. Do you agree that human life ends when the heart stops as there is no afterlife?
Maybe you could answer these directly?
Finally, regarding this thread. Yes it was started by TP and from what I can see it has been inhabited by five main contenders, yourself, me, TP, Stevo, SF and then just an occasional input by one or two others.
I partly agree with TP's sentiment that if anyone started a thread on tooth fairies, santa or leprechauns you would either ignore it or quickly lose interest, but you have no choice when it comes to these eternal matters because deep down you (and others) know it is real and you are in this 'for keeps'.
I would substitute the word suspect for know.
I find it intriguing that despite wanting nothing to do with Christianity, you and others keep reading, and responding to, threads such as these! I don't have the tenacity that TP has and am very much of the shake the dust off your shoes fraternity, for example I never respond to posts by SF any more as it is a waste of time and effort. Others like yourself are at least open to some discussion even though we mostly disagree which is fine. I simply know that becoming a Christian has completely changed my attitude to life (and others too) for the better and nothing would please me more if some of the folk who read these threads go on to investigate Christianity for themselves with open minds. I've done my bit!
This is from a well known Christian song In Christ alone, a song* which I often sing to myself to remind me of what my faith means to me:
No guilt in life, no fear in death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life's first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
Till He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand
from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPr...us%20Draw%20Me.
Thanks for your response but truthpaste repeatedly fabricates what I supposedly claim.
That is precisely the point I am making and why it's impossible to have any dialogue with him.
1. I have never stated that something came from nothing.
2. I have never stated that life could not be the result of the action of a supreme being.
3. I have never stated that the purpose of my life is my choice.
That's three specific lies. Full stop.
As you like reading carefully then read what I said again, "So far you (from your many hundreds of comments on this issue have made it very clear) want your world view to include".
And the three points I made from this were (as clearly stated) drawn from your comments and attitude towards all three points over a number of years. I never said they were direct quotes?
Now if you feel totally misrepresented than I apologise and accept the fact that all your comments have NOT in fact betrayed the position you really hold, I also look forward to hearing your ACTUAL position on the nature of this dialogue that you have freely joined in with, it's title is "I'm convinced that death is not the end for us whatever happens after that" - so what have you come to say on this issue and why do you hold the views that you do?
Thanks for sharing part of your own life story in relation to this and I take your point with the word 'suspect' which would fit the majority of readers across the UK and not just here.
Your point re the constant comebacks on a subject judged to be irrelevant by certain characters has shades of Hamlet and "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" - although Shakespeare himself stole the phrase from Jesus in Matthew 23:31.
Apologise point blank for making statements that were untrue and without trying to justify them by what you imagine to be the case.
Apologies about my feeling this or that just won't pass muster.
Get over yourself, talk about victim culture! I've given you all the apology you are getting, I have said nothing which is untrue, so you can either put up your full views on this thread's subject or stop moaning as I'll not be responding to anything less.
Getting tetchy now I see. I'll answer almost any questions on here if a non-fantasist is not involved. I don't have a problem explaining my views if someone is genuinely interested and doesn't lie about them subsequently.
Unfortunately, you have been proven to be a serial liar or fantasist and have embarrassed yourself enormously.
One in three Britons believe in life after death.
The YouGov Death Study finds that a third of Britons (33%) believe in an afterlife, but four in ten (42%) don’t.
Women (38%) are more likely than men (26%) to believe in life after death.
Among men, the belief in the afterlife falls with age – from 39% among 16-24-year-olds, to just 20% for men in their 60s or older. For women the figure remains about constant.
Among the third of Britons who said they believe in the afterlife, the greatest proportion (43%) think what happens is that the soul goes to heaven or a similar place where it lives on.
One in six (16%) believe in reincarnation and 6% believe in becoming a spirit. A further 22% say they believe there is something after death but are not sure what.
It could be who would you vote for yougov poll
1. Do you agree that the origin of life has nothing to do with a supreme deity?
2. Do you agree that the purpose of your life is your choice and nobody else has (or will have) any say in this unless you say so?
3. Do you agree that human life ends when the heart stops as there is no afterlife?
Whats your definition of a deity? In the loosest possible definition my answers would be:
No, depending on the definition
Yes, absolutely 100%
Absolutely not
Rather than agree or disagree I'll treat the questions as if they were open questions - and I'm afraid that my responses will be brief as I'm on holiday and simply typing on my phone.
1. Of course I can't state that a supreme being doesn't exist. I don't think there is any evidence currently available to support the concept of a supreme being but if reliable evidence we're to be available I would re-evaluate, of course. I have no vested interest in denying what is true.
My answer therefore contradicts truthpaste's assertion regarding this specific matter.
2. I don't know if we have a purpose in life in a philosophical sense. The second part of the question therefore doesn't have any relevance as I don't self-determined a purpose.
I think that the concept of altruism has existed for millennia and has straddled peoples of all denominations, races and cultures but that is bye the bye
3. I'll take this question as being less literal than considering the cessation of heart activity. I can't definitively state that there is no 'afterlife', re-incarnation, hell, Valhalla, Happy Hunting Ground, Hades, Purgatory or Paradise - but there is no evidence thereof that I find convincing. As we humans live in a tiny speck of a planet in a Universe we can't even define the size of and which supposedly contains up to a septillion of stars, it seems that relatively poorly educated humans in the past came up with the most parochial of belief systems. To imagine that a creator of those septillion stars instigated a talking snake, a talking donkey and turning people to salt in just one area of the Earth and thousands of years ago seems rather laughable. This creator seems unable to even have the majority of the population on this wee planet believe in him/her/it. I consider it to be hugely laughable fare but that is another matter.
And now three questions for you:
1. Do you believe the content in Genesis to be literally true, including the creation of Adam and Eve, the talking snake and the Creation story? If so, what meaningful evidence has convinced you?
2. Do you think that it's fair to say that most people who have believed in various religions throughout the history of mankind simply adopt the one they are exposed to from birth by their parents, schooling, religious organisations, ruling classes and local cultural influences etc and they then seem to consider their religion to be the one true religion? Feel free to make the question more open, as it were, as I wouldn't wish to box you in unduly.
3. Do you understand that intelligent and fair-minded people in the 21st century (and who are aware of the concepts of cancer treatments, space travel, virology, cosmology, genetics paleontology, atomic particles and a million other things that were unknown at the time when certain so-called holy books were written) need more evidence to believe in something than was required by illiterate and, by our standards, ill-educated people who didn't even know that China, India or the Americas existed and whose deity seems to have carried out deeds predominantly in their locality?
He said 'supreme deity' - in other words many things that are NOT Almighty and are often called gods, even in the Bible.
Logically it would be impossible for there to be more than one almighty being.
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