Argy bargey

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

But, all I was doing, albeit in an ironic manner, is repeating what Government Ministers and spokespeople (the people you defend on here as a reflex action) were saying. So, what is your point? Are you saying me pointing out an example of this Government’s tendency to blame someone else when anything goes wrong is the reason for the “but still what” or it’s wrong for the Government to apply lazy and simple generalisation to a complex problem?

Was just in response to Peters post, which I can see his point in tbh, but I wanted to point out that often these threads have a tone set early on based on general insults, mocking, claims the govt are the worst in history and other various examples of hyperbole.

I don't endlessly defend the govt by the way. I just consistently think those who do all the criticising on here rarely offer better ideas

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Argy bargey

Was just in response to Peters post, which I can see his point in tbh, but I wanted to point out that often these threads have a tone set early on based on general insults, mocking, claims the govt are the worst in history and other various examples of hyperbole.

I don't endlessly defend the govt by the way. I just consistently think those who do all the criticising on here rarely offer better ideas

You do endlessly defend the Government - as I mentioned, it’s a reflex action, so maybe you don’t know you’re doing it? You’ve not answered my question either, is it okay for the Government to talk about lefty lawyers, but not me?

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

You do endlessly defend the Government - as I mentioned, it’s a reflex action, so maybe you don’t know you’re doing it? You’ve not answered my question either, is it okay for the Government to talk about lefty lawyers, but not me?

In response to infantile posts about it being the worst govt in history / they should be liquidated and things like that, then yes I will naturally defend them. Would do the same for the Welsh Govt in the face of such ridiculousness.

In general though, no. But on this I do think their hands are largely tied (as will the future govts) and I do think my responses are more to highlight the lack of genuine solutions put forward elsewhere. But I guess we all see these things in different ways.

You can both talk about lefty lawyers if you like,that's up to you.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Argy bargey

In response to infantile posts aboutw it being the worst govt in history / they should be liquidated and things like that, then yes I will naturally defend them. Would do the same for the Welsh Govt in the face of such ridiculousness.

In general though, no. But on this I do think their hands are largely tied (as will the future govts) and I do think my responses are more to highlight the lack of genuine solutions put forward elsewhere. But I guess we all see these things in different ways.

You can both talk about lefty lawyers if you like,that's up to you.

But that’s not what you said earlier when you included what I said in your “list of shame” - you correctly identified that I wasn’t being serious, yet had to add the words “but still”. Why?

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

But that’s not what you said earlier when you included what I said in your “list of shame” - you correctly identified that I wasn’t being serious, yet had to add the words “but still”. Why?

Cos it still sets the tone for the debate, when some of the criticism of lawyers may be perfectly valid.

Nonetheless, this does seem a rather pedantic interjection. Should all language on here by analysed in such detail? Seems strange to pick up on 'but still' but overlook talk of people being scum etc

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Argy bargey

Cos it still sets the tone for the debate, when some of the criticism of lawyers may be perfectly valid.

Nonetheless, this does seem a rather pedantic interjection. Should all language on here by analysed in such detail? Seems strange to pick up on 'but still' but overlook talk of people being scum etc

You are like a festering wart

Your ego is the size of a fridge

You are a parent ?

Jesus christ

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Argy bargey

Cos it still sets the tone for the debate, when some of the criticism of lawyers may be perfectly valid.

Nonetheless, this does seem a rather pedantic interjection. Should all language on here by analysed in such detail? Seems strange to pick up on 'but still' but overlook talk of people being scum etc

So, it’s “perfectly valid” when people of the right political persuasion, as you see it, use the term and a “but still” when I do? You often try to moderate the threads you get involved in, but we’ve already got people who do that.

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

So, it’s “perfectly valid” when people of the right political persuasion, as you see it, use the term and a “but still” when I do? You often try to moderate the threads you get involved in, but we’ve already got people who do that.

For goodness sake Bob. In response to Peter, I highlighted some of the comments on Page 1 of this thread to illustrate how the tone of debates is often set. I rightly pointed out what you wrote and said it was ironic.

Now if you are going to play language police may I suggest you start speaking out about the person who has posted immediately above you?

You don't like that someone wrote 'but still..' imagine waking up to see someone call you a festering wart, question your parenting etc, all because you don't vote for his political party.

You could actually help to cut out the kind of personal abuse that is common on here and usually starts from a small number of people.

Why don't you do that and call him out instead of nitpicking?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Argy bargey

For goodness sake Bob. In response to Peter, I highlighted some of the comments on Page 1 of this thread to illustrate how the tone of debates is often set. I rightly pointed out what you wrote and said it was ironic.

Now if you are going to play language police may I suggest you start speaking out about the person who has posted immediately above you?

You don't like that someone wrote 'but still..' imagine waking up to see someone call you a festering wart, question your parenting etc, all because you don't vote for his political party.

You could actually help to cut out the kind of personal abuse that is common on here and usually starts from a small number of people.

Why don't you do that and call him out instead of nitpicking?

Your implication was clear, I shouldn’t be saying what I did. If and when a moderator tells me I’ve gone too far, I’ll accept it (probably), not when you do. I’d say it’s the people who use the term “lefty lawyers” to describe someone who takes a case which succeeds in the courts who have the problem, not.me.

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

Your implication was clear, I shouldn’t be saying what I did. If and when a moderator tells me I’ve gone too far, I’ll accept it (probably), not when you do. I’d say it’s the people who use the term “lefty lawyers” to describe someone who takes a case which succeeds in the courts who have the problem, not.me.

You can say what you like Bob! I was just quoting you and did the fair thing of mentioning you mentioned it ironically. Was hardly unreasonable on my behalf.

Now as I said, if you want to play language police, maybe you have something to say about the post just above your first one this morning? Or is that okay cos he shares similar views?

[Dorcus]

Re: Argy bargey

You can say what you like Bob! I was just quoting you and did the fair thing of mentioning you mentioned it ironically. Was hardly unreasonable on my behalf.

Now as I said, if you want to play language police, maybe you have something to say about the post just above your first one this morning? Or is that okay cos he shares similar views?

Maybe you should retract "lefty lawyers' first because it's infantile, entirely inaccurate, pandering to the worst in society and placing a section of solicitors in danger. This government is self-serving and evil; even though you broadly support their ethos it doesn't mean you can't call them out.

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

Maybe you should retract "lefty lawyers' first because it's infantile, entirely inaccurate, pandering to the worst in society and placing a section of solicitors in danger. This government is self-serving and evil; even though you broadly support their ethos it doesn't mean you can't call them out.

I take your point, but as I said. Look who started talking about them first, and I don't think it is entirely inaccurate, even if the phrase is, I agree, infantile.

Otherwise I think ur also kinda making my point really. Upset over the term 'lefty lawyer' but happy to throw the word evil around. There are evil people in the world, probably evil govts, but they aren't ours. Such language is also infantile and dangerous. Aside from anything else, I doubt so many people would want to come here if we genuinely did have an evil govt. Rishi Sunak isn't Skelator!

[Dorcus]

Re: Argy bargey

I take your point, but as I said. Look who started talking about them first, and I don't think it is entirely inaccurate, even if the phrase is, I agree, infantile.

Otherwise I think ur also kinda making my point really. Upset over the term 'lefty lawyer' but happy to throw the word evil around. There are evil people in the world, probably evil govts, but they aren't ours. Such language is also infantile and dangerous. Aside from anything else, I doubt so many people would want to come here if we genuinely did have an evil govt. Rishi Sunak isn't Skelator!

I think you need to grow up a little. Evil is never infantile, it is ugly and harrowing. When it's justified it needs to be exposed. Maybe you should look inward and ask yourself why you are aligned to such unsavoury views, practices and people.

[JamesWales]

Re: Argy bargey

I think you need to grow up a little. Evil is never infantile, it is ugly and harrowing. When it's justified it needs to be exposed. Maybe you should look inward and ask yourself why you are aligned to such unsavoury views, practices and people.

What are you going on about? How the hell is anything the UK has done remotely evil? Honestly, sometimes!

One could equally say being cool with what is going on is supporting evil, but I don't lay that charge at your door!

How the hell is feeding, housing and caring for whomever chooses to come here 'evil'?!

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Argy bargey

I take your point, but as I said. Look who started talking about them first, and I don't think it is entirely inaccurate, even if the phrase is, I agree, infantile.

Otherwise I think ur also kinda making my point really. Upset over the term 'lefty lawyer' but happy to throw the word evil around. There are evil people in the world, probably evil govts, but they aren't ours. Such language is also infantile and dangerous. Aside from anything else, I doubt so many people would want to come here if we genuinely did have an evil govt. Rishi Sunak isn't Skelator!

I don't think that's a good comparison at all.

Evil is dramatic yeah but also subjective and within the context of how the UK has throughout its history treated migrants and migration, this government is an outlier in its rhetoric against migrants, Lee Anderson's recent comments show that off. What makes it worse is that the majority of them aren't pushing that narrative because they believe it, but because they believe it can hold/gain electoral ground. If the bar you are measuring the UK by is North Korea or the Taliban then you probably should be aiming for a better standard.

The phrase 'Lefty Lawyers' is different imo. It has one target in its sights and that is the justice system, which it seeks to undermine and which is crucial and core to UK democracy. It pushes the idea that somebody can manipulate the system to suit their beliefs rather than the truth which is lawyers will find mistakes and hold people, in this case the government, to account for them. In short, it would be more convenient to the government if migrants weren't entitled to due process and a fair hearing of their application but that isn't the case.