40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

It's a war Bob, Hamas have stated they want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth - and attempted to do it on Oct 7th. Just like Ukraine - Israel are making sure that does not happen, As stated many many times - the international peace negotiators of CCMB have yet to work out a strategy of stopping the war - other than to puff their collective chests out and say 'ooh ooh if only you'd listen to me'
If you feel that strongly about it, go and fight for Hamas - let us know how you get on ?

So, in your opinion, the killing of thousands of innocent civilians and depriving the rest of water, electricity and medicines is fair game?

[pipster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

So, in your opinion, the killing of thousands of innocent civilians and depriving the rest of water, electricity and medicines is fair game?

Did I say that - maybe you could point out where I did ? -

I merely pointed out that it is a war, Hamas have stated many many times they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, Israel have said the opposite.
As you (probably) know - war is horrible and innocent men women and children get killed - that is horrific. But puffing your chest out on here will not fix it.
It will only end when Hamas have been defeated. Hamas seemed to think by taking 200 hostages that would somehow work out well for them. Israel switched off the power, the food and just about everything else - giving Hamas 2 million hostages to look after.
Hamas wont back down - and most of them are either dead or ran away - leaving the Palestinian people (their people) with nothing

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Did I say that - maybe you could point out where I did ? -

I merely pointed out that it is a war, Hamas have stated many many times they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, Israel have said the opposite.
As you (probably) know - war is horrible and innocent men women and children get killed - that is horrific. But puffing your chest out on here will not fix it.
It will only end when Hamas have been defeated. Hamas seemed to think by taking 200 hostages that would somehow work out well for them. Israel switched off the power, the food and just about everything else - giving Hamas 2 million hostages to look after.
Hamas wont back down - and most of them are either dead or ran away - leaving the Palestinian people (their people) with nothing

Good points well made and a refreshing change from the usual mild to severe anti-semitic rhetoric.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Good points well made and a refreshing change from the usual mild to severe anti-semitic rhetoric.

You seem to confuse criticism of the Israeli government as anti-Semitism. Surely you can't be that stupid (again).

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You seem to confuse criticism of the Israeli government as anti-Semitism. Surely you can't be that stupid (again).

It isn't stupidity TBG - it is a deliberate and hypocritical smear.

To conflate the State of Israel with Jewish people worldwide, or to conflate anti Zionism with anti semitism, is to peddle an anti semitic trope that is exactly the same as the anti semitism of blaming Jewish people in London, New York or Tel Aviv for the actions of the Israeli government!

The anti semitism of Sunak, Trump or Netanyahu (and Truthpaste based on his history of posts on Israel/Palestine) - combined with the Israel government's close association with avowed anti semites like Viktor Orban in Hungary (and the public support they get from far right, white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups) just underlines how the traditional definition of anti semitism has been subverted in a propaganda war with supporters of Palestinian rights.

The result is it becomes harder to defend Jewish people facing discrimination, hate and physical attacks because their strongest allies are gagged and suppressed with false allegations of racism. It also reinforces the attack on the growing number of Jewish people (especially in the USA) who reject the Israeli illegal colonial project for a Greater Israel, reject the political ideology of Zionism (as many Orthodox and socialist Jews have always done), and campaign for the rights of Palestinians. There have been tens of thousands of Jewish people on the streets of London in the past 2 months taking part in Palestine solidarity marches, speaking on the platform at the end and carrying placards saying 'not in my name'. I expect Truthpaste denounces them ('the wrong type of Jews') as severely not mildly anti-semitic!

Confusion and stupidity would be better - but this is just cynical, hypocritical and perverse.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Which of my statements from anywhere in this discussion have led you to this conclusion?

(I'll address your other comments after we have cleared this one up).

Did I say that - maybe you could point out where I did ? -

I merely pointed out that it is a war, Hamas have stated many many times they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, Israel have said the opposite.
As you (probably) know - war is horrible and innocent men women and children get killed - that is horrific. But puffing your chest out on here will not fix it.
It will only end when Hamas have been defeated. Hamas seemed to think by taking 200 hostages that would somehow work out well for them. Israel switched off the power, the food and just about everything else - giving Hamas 2 million hostages to look after.
Hamas wont back down - and most of them are either dead or ran away - leaving the Palestinian people (their people) with nothing

You either support Israel’s actions or you don’t. There’s no middle ground here.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

God and girlfriend. Not to worry as I am happy to leave it too.

OK, fair enough - hopefully you got the gist of what I am trying to say! A difficult subject to "analogise" (is there such a word?).

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I wonder if any of the contributors to this thread* have stopped to ponder why Hezbollah and Hamas didn't get together and launch simultaneous attacks from Lebanon and Gaza respectively? If they had done so then the IDF would have been caught off guard on two fronts at the same time with even more devastating consequences. Why didn't they?

*Apologies if some did and I've missed them (it is a very long thread!).

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Maybe God deliberately got their wires crossed to prevent that scenario from occurring.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Maybe God deliberately got their wires crossed to prevent that scenario from occurring.

Possibly.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

OK, fair enough - hopefully you got the gist of what I am trying to say! A difficult subject to "analogise" (is there such a word?).

I think that analogies often obfuscate and are inaccurate, pointless and unhelpful. It's possible to discuss the point being discussed without such red herrings - and likening 'God', the supposed loving, creator of each of us (and arbiter of who enters paradise or gets consigned to eternal hell) with a girlfriend is plainly absurd.
"God is love", after all.......

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I think that analogies often obfuscate and are inaccurate, pointless and unhelpful. It's possible to discuss the point being discussed without such red herrings - and likening 'God', the supposed loving, creator of each of us (and arbiter of who enters paradise or gets consigned to eternal hell) with a girlfriend is plainly absurd.
"God is love", after all.......

I was hoping that you would realise that likening God's love to that of a girlfriend's was just a well-intentioned analogy - it's the closest I could get! I could have said mother or wife - anyone who loves you very much.

OK so if it's possible to discuss this without the use of analogies, where is the "discussion" element in your response? It rather sounds to me like the rejection of an argument on the usual "it's all absurd anyway" basis as you do not propose any alternative.

OK then let's try this: for "girlfriend" read anyone who shows you unconditional love. If you reject that love you must accept the consequences that go with that decision, yes?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I was hoping that you would realise that likening God's love to that of a girlfriend's was just a well-intentioned analogy - it's the closest I could get! I could have said mother or wife - anyone who loves you very much.

OK so if it's possible to discuss this without the use of analogies, where is the "discussion" element in your response? It rather sounds to me like the rejection of an argument on the usual "it's all absurd anyway" basis as you do not propose any alternative.

OK then let's try this: for "girlfriend" read anyone who shows you unconditional love. If you reject that love you must accept the consequences that go with that decision, yes?

More of same. A member of my family (a mere human being) does not send anyone to eternal hell if the latter is not convinced of the former's existence and of his or her creating the Universe, Mankind etc. This really is absurd and repetitive.
What next? What if your next door neighbour.......

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I was hoping that you would realise that likening God's love to that of a girlfriend's was just a well-intentioned analogy - it's the closest I could get! I could have said mother or wife - anyone who loves you very much.

OK so if it's possible to discuss this without the use of analogies, where is the "discussion" element in your response? It rather sounds to me like the rejection of an argument on the usual "it's all absurd anyway" basis as you do not propose any alternative.

OK then let's try this: for "girlfriend" read anyone who shows you unconditional love. If you reject that love you must accept the consequences that go with that decision, yes?

By the way, what do you mean by my proposing an alternative?
An alternative deity? An alternative way that your God can persuade more people of his/her/it's existence?
An alternative way for your God to deal with non-believers?

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

More of same. A member of my family (a mere human being) does not send anyone to eternal hell if the latter is not convinced of the former's existence and of his or her creating the Universe, Mankind etc. This really is absurd and repetitive.
What next? What if your next door neighbour.......

You've missed the point I think. My understanding is that Hell, whatever/wherever that actually is, means, by definition, God is not there. God does not "send" unbelievers to hell, they have chosen to go there because they reject him and therefore should neither expect or want to be where he is surely! This is what I meant by the consequences of our decisions.

Of course, you have free will as I do, so you are free to accept or reject Christianity in the same way as I am. I made my commitment to Jesus Christ in my late 30's, not out of any particular desire for eternal life or as a crutch to get me through life or get me a place at the top table, but because I came to believe in Jesus as God incarnate and that I could share his love with other people as he told us to. This changed my life completely. I am a faith-in-action person and serve in many practical ways. As a fellow believer once confessed to me, even if in the unlikely event that it all turned out to be a load of make-believe in the end, then he would not have regretted one moment of the way of life he had lived.