40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Jo Stephens , Cardiff Central MP who abstained from the vote to call for a cease fire has had her offices vandalised and daubed with red paint

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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

For me, not enough world leaders are calling out both Hamas and the Israeli government for their atrocities - they seem to have to side with one or the other. The mind boggles. And both Sunak and Starmer are a disgrace for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.

I agree

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Jo Stephens , Cardiff Central MP who abstained from the vote to call for a cease fire has had her offices vandalised and daubed with red paint

My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.

Abstaining that vote is even worse.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

For me, not enough world leaders are calling out both Hamas and the Israeli government for their atrocities - they seem to have to side with one or the other. The mind boggles. And both Sunak and Starmer are a disgrace for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.

Abstaining that vote is even worse.

I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised me

Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised me

Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election

And that’s the problem. MPs only interested in their own career and not what’s best for the country/world. So, she’s as bad as Braverman in that respect.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.

Abstaining that vote is even worse.

I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised me

Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

And that’s the problem. MPs only interested in their own career and not what’s best for the country/world. So, she’s as bad as Braverman in that respect.

Well I certainly wouldn't be impressed if she was my mp

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Don't agree with all of this article, but it's very close to my feelings on the whole thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/17/hamas-benjamin-netanyahu-ceasefire

[JamesWales]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.

So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.

Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.

Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.

So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.

Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.

Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-80-of-israelis-say-netanyahu-must-take-public-responsibility-for-oct-7-failures/

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Don't agree with all of this article, but it's very close to my feelings on the whole thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...yahu-ceasefire

I agree with some of it but its' main thrust is that in Israel it is Netanyahu and his latest far right government are the problem and that Hamas is just a rabid dog organisation of murderers bent on death and paradise.

Netanyahu and his fascist government are certainly a complete barrier to any solution, and Hamas has amongst its 30,000 fighters a large number of men who see no other way than murder and terror.

But this is Freedland doing his usual whitewash job for Zionism and presenting persecution of Palestinians as a recent phenomenon. It is also another opinion piece that ignores the complexity of Hamas. The military wing was proscribed by western governments as a terrorist organisation over 20 years ago. They only decided to add the Hamas health, housing and sewage workers to the list 2-3 years ago - as a political gesture. In the past 7-8 years Hamas modified its charter, made peace offers to Israel and accepted the idea of a 2 state solution - all moves ignored or rejected.

Most of the Hamas leaders living in luxury exile (not all) and many of the fighters are a total obstacle to peace, but most of their ordinary members and supporters will have to be part of a solution. Equally although Netanyahu and his mates are an obstacle to peace and so is the state ideology and many of the 600,000 illegal settlers on the West Bank (and beneficiaries of the recent ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem), the people of Israel - especially the 80% who are Jewish - must be part of a solution.

None of that will happen if the Jonathan Freedland view that a few recent bad apples on both sides (but mainly the Palestinian side for him) are the only problem. It goes deeper and it goes back much longer.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.

So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.

Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.

Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment

It is much more the other way around. Hamas is a product of Netanyahu and Israeli leader like him who wanted to create a new force to undermine the PLO/Fatah, who needed an external threat (in addition to Iran!) to give cover to their Greater Israel strategy and military expansion, and who preferred to face Islamists than a secular opposition.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I agree with some of it but its' main thrust is that in Israel it is Netanyahu and his latest far right government are the problem and that Hamas is just a rabid dog organisation of murderers bent on death and paradise.

Netanyahu and his fascist government are certainly a complete barrier to any solution, and Hamas has amongst its 30,000 fighters a large number of men who see no other way than murder and terror.

But this is Freedland doing his usual whitewash job for Zionism and presenting persecution of Palestinians as a recent phenomenon. It is also another opinion piece that ignores the complexity of Hamas. The military wing was proscribed by western governments as a terrorist organisation over 20 years ago. They only decided to add the Hamas health, housing and sewage workers to the list 2-3 years ago - as a political gesture. In the past 7-8 years Hamas modified its charter, made peace offers to Israel and accepted the idea of a 2 state solution - all moves ignored or rejected.

Most of the Hamas leaders living in luxury exile (not all) and many of the fighters are a total obstacle to peace, but most of their ordinary members and supporters will have to be part of a solution. Equally although Netanyahu and his mates are an obstacle to peace and so is the state ideology and many of the 600,000 illegal settlers on the West Bank (and beneficiaries of the recent ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem), the people of Israel - especially the 80% who are Jewish - must be part of a solution.

None of that will happen if the Jonathan Freedland view that a few recent bad apples on both sides (but mainly the Palestinian side for him) are the only problem. It goes deeper and it goes back much longer.

It's hard to take sides and it's hard not to.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Show me evidence of God, show me God

Not fields , or the sky or the Bible

I want physical evidence of God . When ordinary people ask this question we are told he can't possibly be everywhere or appear in a gas or speak to people ........but this is what you lot tell us has happened

So get on with it

As a culture, we spend 25% (late September to late December) of every year rearranging our retail space to mark the official time of His *arrival. Do you know of anyone else in history who after 2023 years has this impact on most of the world? Also as a culture, no other name is mentioned as much in conversation, and no, I'm not including those who know who He is. I'm talking about people like you, and the nervous 'please shut the thread down' sort.

*Granted, the secular masses of most of Europe and beyond mainly can't quite remember why they are celebrating it

This clip with Alf Garnett shows how confused we are, and this was 51 years ago! >>> CLIP
NB: Start at 9m 45s if you are short of time.

Alf mentions the Middle East, and for those who want a heads up on the end game, then the God who has got every other prophecy 100% correct has stated this:-

Future Deliverance for Jerusalem:

This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the Lord: “This message is from the Lord, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the human spirit. I will make Jerusalem like an intoxicating drink that makes the nearby nations stagger when they send their armies to besiege Jerusalem and Judah.
On that day I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock.
All the nations will gather against it to try to move it, but they will only hurt themselves.
Zechariah 12:1-3