Institute For Fiscal Studies

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Put the knife into tories and labour this morning

Paul Johnson says both manifestos don't provide for investment and improvement of public services

Starmer I think made a fool of himself arguing that Labour's did .....its more generous than the conservatives but that's not the point

I think ideas like this energy Bank are a good idea but only if its financially viable . I would love to see the return of public utilities and privatised industry to the state but if its going to happen it could be decades away .

I think people thinking corbyn type plans ever had or will ever have a chance to be implemented are mad .

[JamesWales]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

Wow, I for one am absolutely shocked!

It's not going to take long for people to feel a bit let down I sense. I can't say I have much sympathy; for months and months Labour have been criticising the "high tax" Tories and they will soon face the exact same issues.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

Wow, I for one am absolutely shocked!

It's not going to take long for people to feel a bit let down I sense. I can't say I have much sympathy; for months and months Labour have been criticising the "high tax" Tories and they will soon face the exact same issues.

I can't see how anybody with a working braincell could justify feeling let down, Labour aren't really promising anything.

They criticise the 'high tax' Tories because it cuts through, and it cuts through because the Tories spend so much time claiming they are lowering taxes and that they are the party of low taxes and the general public have realised this is essentially bollocks.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

Wow, I for one am absolutely shocked!

It's not going to take long for people to feel a bit let down I sense. I can't say I have much sympathy; for months and months Labour have been criticising the "high tax" Tories and they will soon face the exact same issues.

I hope that Labour get a big majority and increase spending

Then people might realise that in order to have a better NHS or public transport system it's got a cost in real terms , in the pocket

Then come the next election they can bat away the critics by saying well this is the reality

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

I can't see how anybody with a working braincell could justify feeling let down, Labour aren't really promising anything.

They criticise the 'high tax' Tories because it cuts through, and it cuts through because the Tories spend so much time claiming they are lowering taxes and that they are the party of low taxes and the general public have realised this is essentially bollocks.

Labour plans could lead to highest tax burden since 1948
Tory plans will lead to highest tax burden since 1950

So the Tories really are stretching reality

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

Labour plans could lead to highest tax burden since 1948
Tory plans will lead to highest tax burden since 1950

So the Tories really are stretching reality

When they say tax burden who are they referring to? Just the UK population as a whole? I am minded to think that there are plenty of people in the UK who could afford to pay more tax than they are currently, I am also minded to think that there are people who literally will not be able to provide for themselves or their families if you squeeze another penny out of them.

But the reality is it's all a moving feast, if other costs go up/down (housing/bills) people move between those two categories.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

When they say tax burden who are they referring to? Just the UK population as a whole? I am minded to think that there are plenty of people in the UK who could afford to pay more tax than they are currently, I am also minded to think that there are people who literally will not be able to provide for themselves or their families if you squeeze another penny out of them.

But the reality is it's all a moving feast, if other costs go up/down (housing/bills) people move between those two categories.

The tax burden on the country , population , as a whole

[JamesWales]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

The tax burden on the country , population , as a whole

This whole debate has frustrated me a bit. Yes, the thresholds haven't changed for a couple of years, so more people are dragged into higher tax bands, but that only happens by virtue of a wage increase crossing a threshold

I don't earn enough to pay the top rate of tax and I am demonstrably paying less tax than six months ago. Not saying thats right or wrong, but it is definitely the case that I am paying less tax.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

The tax burden on the country , population , as a whole

So we could feasibly have the same tax burden and it be distributed in a far more progressive way across the spectrum of individuals, businesses and murky grey area in between? That alone makes the concept of the tax burden near to useless in my opinion.

[az city]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

When they say tax burden who are they referring to? Just the UK population as a whole? I am minded to think that there are plenty of people in the UK who could afford to pay more tax than they are currently, I am also minded to think that there are people who literally will not be able to provide for themselves or their families if you squeeze another penny out of them.

But the reality is it's all a moving feast, if other costs go up/down (housing/bills) people move between those two categories.

For clarification, here's the piece: https://ifs.org.uk/calculators/what-...fits-and-taxes

There's a tendency to mix Tax/GDP (which includes all taxes on businesses and subjects) and more disaggregated analysis (by income cohort etc).

[az city]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

So we could feasibly have the same tax burden and it be distributed in a far more progressive way across the spectrum of individuals, businesses and murky grey area in between? That alone makes the concept of the tax burden near to useless in my opinion.

Actually Tax/GDP is very useful as a macroeconomic tool. But yeah, you can have the same tax take but collect it in various ways.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

This whole debate has frustrated me a bit. Yes, the thresholds haven't changed for a couple of years, so more people are dragged into higher tax bands, but that only happens by virtue of a wage increase crossing a threshold

I don't earn enough to pay the top rate of tax and I am demonstrably paying less tax than six months ago. Not saying thats right or wrong, but it is definitely the case that I am paying less tax.

The starting point of any discussion on this needs to be anchored to how much does it cost to live and that is going to vary wildly from region to region. This is the depressing thing about the right wing obsession with being against/afraid of people working from home. WFH allows people to bypass the usual requirement of living near your workplace, which is something that for so many people makes life so much more difficult from an income/expenditure pov.

[az city]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

This whole debate has frustrated me a bit. Yes, the thresholds haven't changed for a couple of years, so more people are dragged into higher tax bands, but that only happens by virtue of a(n) [inflation-caused, nominal] wage increase crossing a threshold

Fixed it for you. Fiscal drag is not really about real wages, Bluebottle.

[JamesWales]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

Fixed it for you. Fiscal drag is not really about real wages, Bluebottle.

I am paying proportionately less tax than I was 9 months ago. That's a fact.

[JamesWales]

Re: Institute For Fiscal Studies

The starting point of any discussion on this needs to be anchored to how much does it cost to live and that is going to vary wildly from region to region. This is the depressing thing about the right wing obsession with being against/afraid of people working from home. WFH allows people to bypass the usual requirement of living near your workplace, which is something that for so many people makes life so much more difficult from an income/expenditure pov.

I don't think it's a right-wing obsession! It's certainly something that concerns many, for many reasons, across the spectrum.