Amsterdam Violence

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I take it Israel’s “right to defend themselves” will see their forces overrunning and laying bare sections of Amsterdam in the coming months?

It’s because Netanyahu and co have stretched the meaning of the right to defend themselves beyond breaking point in Gaza that things like this happen.

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I've got no sympathy for dickheads who were chanting anti Arab abuse and burning Palestinian flags being beaten up but surely you agree that not all of the Tel Aviv fans would have been guilty of that stuff, and the people beating up the innocent ones just for being Jewish should be condemned?

Exactly.

Anyone excusing the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or even being a football fans needs to give their head a very serious wobble.

When you have the Dutch king, prime minister and mayor of Amsterdam describing it as dark antisemitic attacks you know it's been a serious event

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I take it Israel’s “right to defend themselves” will see their forces overrunning and laying bare sections of Amsterdam in the coming months?

It’s because Netanyahu and co have stretched the meaning of the right to defend themselves beyond breaking point in Gaza that things like this happen.

Be careful what you say; Netanyahu's spies are everywhere; the IDF may consider the Rhondda within their reach for supremacy

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Exactly.

Anyone excusing the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or even being a football fans needs to give their head a very serious wobble.

When you have the Dutch king, prime minister and mayor of Amsterdam describing it as dark antisemitic attacks you know it's been a serious event

I agree with your first paragraph, there can be no excuse for 'the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or....' being Maccabi Tel Aviv fans.

But I wouldn't be too impressed by the response of some of the Dutch and European public figures who condemned the attacks. There is a clear agenda from the likes of Netanyahu, Von Der Layen and the (Geert Wilders place man) Dutch Prime Minister to promote the idea of existential danger for Jewish people in Europe (not just the ones who burn Palestinian flags and beat up Arab taxi drivers) from rampant anti semitism - also sometimes known as anti Zionism and Palestinian solidarity.

Like all such claims it has a sliver of truth at its heart but is mainly put forward as a means of deflection from the war crimes of Israel and to justify the forever war (victims 70% women and children) across a growing area of the Middle East.

The mayor of Amsterdam does not have a history of promoting that cynical narrative for political ends. She is from the green/liberal left. But even she ignored completely the actions of the Tel Aviv fans that at least partly provoked the violence. Her denunciation of the attacks is fine, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It took the Dutch police to give a full account of what happened - although there are still more details to come out.

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I agree with your first paragraph, there can be no excuse for 'the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or....' being Maccabi Tel Aviv fans.

But I wouldn't be too impressed by the response of some of the Dutch and European public figures who condemned the attacks. There is a clear agenda from the likes of Netanyahu, Von Der Layen and the (Geert Wilders place man) Dutch Prime Minister to promote the idea of existential danger for Jewish people in Europe (not just the ones who burn Palestinian flags and beat up Arab taxi drivers) from rampant anti semitism - also sometimes known as anti Zionism and Palestinian solidarity.

Like all such claims it has a sliver of truth at its heart but is mainly put forward as a means of deflection from the war crimes of Israel and to justify the forever war (victims 70% women and children) across a growing area of the Middle East.

The mayor of Amsterdam does not have a history of promoting that cynical narrative for political ends. She is from the green/liberal left. But even she ignored completely the actions of the Tel Aviv fans that at least partly provoked the violence. Her denunciation of the attacks is fine, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It took the Dutch police to give a full account of what happened - although there are still more details to come out.

At the end of the day Western governments cynically view support for Israel as a useful ploy for political benefit. They even drag out their Monarch if possible in order to loudly demonstrate their bona fides.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Be careful what you say; Netanyahu's spies are everywhere; the IDF may consider the Rhondda within their reach for supremacy

It will never happen, have you seen the price of a pint there?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I agree with your first paragraph, there can be no excuse for 'the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or....' being Maccabi Tel Aviv fans.

But I wouldn't be too impressed by the response of some of the Dutch and European public figures who condemned the attacks. There is a clear agenda from the likes of Netanyahu, Von Der Layen and the (Geert Wilders place man) Dutch Prime Minister to promote the idea of existential danger for Jewish people in Europe (not just the ones who burn Palestinian flags and beat up Arab taxi drivers) from rampant anti semitism - also sometimes known as anti Zionism and Palestinian solidarity.

Like all such claims it has a sliver of truth at its heart but is mainly put forward as a means of deflection from the war crimes of Israel and to justify the forever war (victims 70% women and children) across a growing area of the Middle East.

The mayor of Amsterdam does not have a history of promoting that cynical narrative for political ends. She is from the green/liberal left. But even she ignored completely the actions of the Tel Aviv fans that at least partly provoked the violence. Her denunciation of the attacks is fine, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It took the Dutch police to give a full account of what happened - although there are still more details to come out.

There is also no justification for several hundred right wing zionist tel aviv Israeli fans to travel across Europe to a city with a large Arabic population and attack the locals , burn Palestinian flags and chant racist anti Arabic songs

The police and independent witnesses saw this and it's been reported

It seems the tel aviv fans who did this caused problems for themselves and innocent tel aviv fans

It's as clear as day that this sort of thing could happen

[Feedback]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

You really can't expect to be able to set fire to other people's flags and not face consequences. At least, not outside Israel. I think these Maccabi hooligans thought they'd get protection from Ajax fans because they're pro Jewish: but they were wrong.

why would you get upset about setting fire to a bit of coloured cloth? the colonials get upset because to them, their flag means something much more than what it does for most other nations (can't understand it myself). That's why the anti-american brigade burn their flags, as its seen as a big insult. Others copy this action, burning flags as a means of insult. Who and what burning a flag is is meant to insult is beyond me. Monkey brain is evident in more than most.

[Feedback]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I'm just asking a logical question because it is a known way of kicking things off, and in some cases undercover operatives are involved, so there is no need for your "either with us or against us" spiel.

Thank God you're here to keep us informed about what is really going on.

[Feedback]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Tel Aviv fans ripped down a Palestinian flag , burnt down another flag and attacked a taxi the night before

That's according to Dutch police

I would say that irrespective of the idiots involved in hit squad attacks on Jewish fans , that's provocation

was it just Palestinians who attacked the Tel Aviv fans, or was it used by those without any skin in the game as a reason to attack?

[Feedback]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

there is verified evidence that they beat up an Arab taxi-driver, attacked people's houses and tore down Pal flags, chanted disgusting slogans about Arabs and how there aren't any schools in Gaza because there aren't any children, chanted during the minute's silence about Valencia, some of them were IDF, they beat up an Arab in Athens in March, and then got caught by some Dutch Moroccans who'd had enough. They are racist genociders who went there to cause trouble.

what does it have to do with Moroccans?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

what does it have to do with Moroccans?

Well to answer or try to answer 2 questions it's clear that given the current tensions in the middle east it's evident that some people of Muslim origin are extremely offended by the actions of Israel in Gaza and beyond

I don't think that the initial disorder carried out by tel aviv " ultras " was in the best interests of social harmony in Amsterdam nor was the reaction of the local Arabic community

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

was it just Palestinians who attacked the Tel Aviv fans, or was it used by those without any skin in the game as a reason to attack?

I have no idea but if you go to say Swansea in a Cardiff shirt and pull down a swansea city flag , set fire to another one , sing pro cardiff and anti swansea songs etc in the lead up to a game I think it's likely to provoke the locals wether they are full on swansea city season ticket holders or not

[Feedback]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Well to answer or try to answer 2 questions it's clear that given the current tensions in the middle east it's evident that some people of Muslim origin are extremely offended by the actions of Israel in Gaza and beyond

I don't think that the initial disorder carried out by tel aviv " ultras " was in the best interests of social harmony in Amsterdam nor was the reaction of the local Arabic community

So nothing to do with the Moroccans then. Given their version of Arabic (as well as their culture) is so far removed from Palestinian's version, it may as well be a different language. However the Moroccans used it as an example to have a go at the Israelis.

Both sides are as bad as each other. Pavlov's dogs spring to mind.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

So nothing to do with the Moroccans then. Given their version of Arabic (as well as their culture) is so far removed from Palestinian's version, it may as well be a different language. However the Moroccans used it as an example to have a go at the Israelis.

Both sides are as bad as each other. Pavlov's dogs spring to mind.

Well wether you think people of Arabic origin .....Syrian Arabs, Iraqis, morrocans , Algerians.....etc ....should be offered and get stuck in really is by the by

It's all daft as far as I am concerned but If I was a tel aviv fan playing a side in a European city with a large Muslim population ....of any origin .....at a time of increased tension I would firstly probably not attend the game or if I did ....I would leave the insulting chants and behaviour on the bus