Amsterdam Violence

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

why would you get upset about setting fire to a bit of coloured cloth? the colonials get upset because to them, their flag means something much more than what it does for most other nations (can't understand it myself). That's why the anti-american brigade burn their flags, as its seen as a big insult. Others copy this action, burning flags as a means of insult. Who and what burning a flag is is meant to insult is beyond me. Monkey brain is evident in more than most.

I couldn't agree more with your sentiments here. I have no issues with flag burning myself. As a non nationalist I think it would be great if we did away with flags and nations altogether. There lies the root of much conflict.

However, as you pointed out yourself, some people have rather different views to mine and whether or not they should get themselves worked up by the burning of a piece of cloth is a moot point.

Nevertheless, the background to all this is the flagrant murder of innocents in the very country whose flag was desecrated, and, even more by citizens of the country perpetrating the slaughter. I'm not at all people reacted angrily at this disgusting and egregious act of hostility. I don't condone the resultant violence but I wouldn't be surprised if people other than the Arab community reacted with fury. I certainly would have had I been there and I have no skin in the game apart from detesting the wanton slaughter of innocents.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

So nothing to do with the Moroccans then. Given their version of Arabic (as well as their culture) is so far removed from Palestinian's version, it may as well be a different language. However the Moroccans used it as an example to have a go at the Israelis.

Both sides are as bad as each other. Pavlov's dogs spring to mind.

Thank God you're here to keep us informed about what is really going on.

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx243z69w4no

Dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators have been detained by police in Amsterdam after defying a ban on public protests in the Dutch capital.

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Amsterdam's Mayor Femke Halsema announced a ban on public assembly on Friday lasting at least until the end of the weekend, deeming the city a "high-risk security area".

But protesters on Sunday argued they should be free to voice their disapproval of Israel's actions in Gaza and the actions of the Maccabi supporters.

"This protest has nothing to do with antisemitism," Alexander van Stokkum, one of the demonstrators, told the AFP news agency on Sunday. "It is against Israeli hooligans who were destroying our city."

Others told a Reuters journalist: "We refuse to let the charge of antisemitism be weaponised to suppress Palestinian resistance."

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Israel's National Security Council has told its citizens to avoid public demonstrations "of any kind" and conceal "anything that could identify you as Israeli/Jewish", citing Thursday's attacks.

"Preparations to harm Israelis have been identified in several European cities, including Brussels (Belgium), major cities in the UK, Amsterdam (Netherlands), and Paris," it claimed.


That last statement looks like pure BS to me - the Israeli government using the Amsterdam events to promote a 'perpetual victim' narrative. There was a demonstration planned in Amsterdam about Gaza and Lebanon. There is an international football match in Paris. Brussels is always rolled out as a target city because of the EU significance. The UK always gets included because of the size and impact of the Palestine solidarity marches and events - and the echo chamber that Tory politicians used to offer for the Israeli slander of peace protestors (many of them Jewish)! True there is some nervousness about what might kick off in Paris, but otherwise this list of risk cities has no serious support. The propaganda machine is working overtime!

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/oh-the-irony-football-hooligans-celebrate-genocide-and-get-a-beating/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_source_platform=mailpoet&utm_campaign=today-on-the-jvl-blog-newsletter-total-articles-for-you_1

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org...cles-for-you_1

This says it all.

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/more-media-misreporting-from-amsterdam/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_source_platform=mailpoet&utm_campaign=today-on-the-jvl-blog-newsletter-total-articles-for-you_1

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

As a non nationalist I think it would be great if we did away with flags and nations altogether.

Hey Dorcus.

This statement caught my eye.
I’m interested in your thoughts on the alternatives to nations.
What would be a better alternative and
how would you address the practicalities of ridding countries like Canada, Finland or Thailand of their nationhood?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org...cles-for-you_1

JW let's be having you

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

JW let's be having you

That's the beauty of the internet isn't it. If what the mayor of a city, the prime minister of a country, the police chief who arrested 60 odd people doesn't fit your narrative, there is always a corner of the internet where people can find validation.

No one doubts there are idiotic and offensive Maccabi Tel Aviv fans. That goes with the territory. But going out to hunt down anyone else of the same club/nationality/religion is quite fkn obviously not a legitimate response to it.

Celtic fans showed their usual disrespect on armistace day yesterday and couldn't stay quiet for even a few seconds. By your rationale, a bit of random Catholic bashing is in order now?

None of you were there, but there way you so blithely dismiss what seems like a very serious event speaks volumes. Just condemn it. It's not hard. No one thinks it's all Muslims doing it, no one thinks it's all Maccabi fans behaving bad, but it's not a hard event to condemn for most people when you hear the statements from politicians who actually run the bloody city this occured in and plainly know more about what happened than the experts of CCMB!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

That's the beauty of the internet isn't it. If what the mayor of a city, the prime minister of a country, the police chief who arrested 60 odd people doesn't fit your narrative, there is always a corner of the internet where people can find validation.

No one doubts there are idiotic and offensive Maccabi Tel Aviv fans. That goes with the territory. But going out to hunt down anyone else of the same club/nationality/religion is quite fkn obviously not a legitimate response to it.

Celtic fans showed their usual disrespect on armistace day yesterday and couldn't stay quiet for even a few seconds. By your rationale, a bit of random Catholic bashing is in order now?

None of you were there, but there way you so blithely dismiss what seems like a very serious event speaks volumes. Just condemn it. It's not hard. No one thinks it's all Muslims doing it, no one thinks it's all Maccabi fans behaving bad, but it's not a hard event to condemn for most people when you hear the statements from politicians who actually run the bloody city this occured in and plainly know more about what happened than the experts of CCMB!

Rubbish

You were basically jumping on the nasty Muslims train the moment this news broke

You are just about the only poster who was not accepting that there was far more tothis story than met the eye

I had heard about the accusations that some of the video that you were not doubt santimoniously "disgusted " with showing innocent Jewish soccer fans being attacked by Arabs was in fact the other way around !

That's from those that WERE there

The accounts of Palestinian flags being burnt and defaced and racist anti Arabic chanting are widespread now

But your " expert eye witness view " is made up of your narrow mind and the media you suck up ......which is pro Israel

You have vanished for a few days to lick your wounds on here but you are wrong before and wrong now

This has gone from a full blown holocaust denier type attack from to ...oh there's a few bad tel aviv fans .....

Put a sock in it Jim , the attacks on innocent fans has been condemned from the start so put that away it sounds feeble

What we have seen is several hundred ultra type Israeli nutters come to a European capital , provoke the local Muslims over gaza etc and get a right seeing to

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Rubbish

You were basically jumping on the nasty Muslims train the moment this news broke

You are just about the only poster who was not accepting that there was far more tothis story than met the eye

I had heard about the accusations that some of the video that you were not doubt santimoniously "disgusted " with showing innocent Jewish soccer fans being attacked by Arabs was in fact the other way around !

That's from those that WERE there

The accounts of Palestinian flags being burnt and defaced and racist anti Arabic chanting are widespread now

But your " expert eye witness view " is made up of your narrow mind and the media you suck up ......which is pro Israel

You have vanished for a few days to lick your wounds on here but you are wrong before and wrong now

This has gone from a full blown holocaust denier type attack from to ...oh there's a few bad tel aviv fans .....

Put a sock in it Jim , the attacks on innocent fans has been condemned from the start so put that away it sounds feeble

What we have seen is several hundred ultra type Israeli nutters come to a European capital , provoke the local Muslims over gaza etc and get a right seeing to

Few days to lick my wounds? I didn't post for one day! .
It is tempting to go along with you, but on this occasion I am happy going with the mayor of the city in question and the prime minister of the country in question and the countless things I've read and seen that back it up.

No one denies some football fans behaved appallingly, and they should be dealt with if its illegal (and smashing a taxi plainly is). However the response quite obviously is not okay, which is probably why the statements condemning it have been so resolute.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Few days to lick my wounds? I didn't post for one day! .
It is tempting to go along with you, but on this occasion I am happy going with the mayor of the city in question and the prime minister of the country in question and the countless things I've read and seen that back it up.

No one denies some football fans behaved appallingly, and they should be dealt with if its illegal (and smashing a taxi plainly is). However the response quite obviously is not okay, which is probably why the statements condemning it have been so resolute.

You always appear mute when you are drowning

This is another example

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

You always appear mute when you are drowning

This is another example

Mute? I didn't post for a day cos I had a busy weekend and frankly this thread is weird.

I genuinely have no idea what you are rambling on about. Even less so than when you were calling Kemi Badenoch a gap-toothed slapper last week in another one of your fine observations.

All I'm saying is that it seems pretty damned likely that there was a very unpleasant event in Amsterdam last week which many people far more informed than you have labeled antisemitic. I've also very much acknowledged that no doubt some Maccabi fans behaved appallingly and in at least one case violently. Weve all seen appalling football fan behavior before but I don't recollect such event being peppered with discussions about "jew hunts"

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/calls-for-jew-hunt-preceded-attacks-in-amsterdam-e3311e21

To agree with the mayor of Amsterdam and the PM of Netherlands about an event that happened in their city and country really shouldn't be a controversial opinion. Quite why it is to you, is beyond me. I'm not aware of you being a fan of Ajax or Maccabi Tel Aviv but here we are discussing the event in the thread that you started purely to cast doubt on the idea that some people were attacked for their religion.

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Hey Dorcus.

This statement caught my eye.
I’m interested in your thoughts on the alternatives to nations.
What would be a better alternative and
how would you address the practicalities of ridding countries like Canada, Finland or Thailand of their nationhood?

Hi Wash, I hope you are well. Thanks for your question: and of course it's a hugely difficult one to answer, as I suspect you anticipated. At the very least a short response on a football message board won't do it justice.

Of course humans have evolved to stay within tribal situations largely for reasons of security, safety and wellbeing since our earliest beginnings. The nation state being a structure that better suits the needs of a competitive society so I can understand it's development . However rabid nationalism along with religion (which often are intertwined) have led to the most destructive wars in history and continue to do so. We can never be sure some particular forthcoming war might not end our tenure on the planet.

I won't attempt to give you a pathway to a non nationalistic but united World but I believe nations coalescing and developing like minded beliefs is an important first step. For me, although not perfect I believe the EU offers an early model and opportunity for progress but of course you may well disagree.

Suffice it to say personally I have no particular national affiliation and I'm happy being a citizen of the World.

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Mute? I didn't post for a day cos I had a busy weekend and frankly this thread is weird.

I genuinely have no idea what you are rambling on about. Even less so than when you were calling Kemi Badenoch a gap-toothed slapper last week in another one of your fine observations.

All I'm saying is that it seems pretty damned likely that there was a very unpleasant event in Amsterdam last week which many people far more informed than you have labeled antisemitic. I've also very much acknowledged that no doubt some Maccabi fans behaved appallingly and in at least one case violently. Weve all seen appalling football fan behavior before but I don't recollect such event being peppered with discussions about "jew hunts"

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/calls-for-jew-hunt-preceded-attacks-in-amsterdam-e3311e21

To agree with the mayor of Amsterdam and the PM of Netherlands about an event that happened in their city and country really shouldn't be a controversial opinion. Quite why it is to you, is beyond me. I'm not aware of you being a fan of Ajax or Maccabi Tel Aviv but here we are discussing the event in the thread that you started purely to cast doubt on the idea that some people were attacked for their religion.

To put things into perspective why are we arguing the toss over some routine football violence where the usual ultras got into a scrap, and yet not tear out our mutual hearts at the horrific genocide going on in Gaza and also not condemn the Western politicians who have nearly as much blood on their evil hands as the Israeli butchers?