Amsterdam Violence

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

How do we know that they were more serious? Even if they were, you’re showing your bias by arguing that the so called revenge attacks were more serious and devastating than the original attack, that’s contrary to the position you have adopted with Gaza where you’ve defended the Israelis.

Spot on again , up the creek with no paddle

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Well five were hospitalised, there were 60 arrests, 7 of which were Israeli. Also the authorities in Amsterdam are quoted as saying so and emphasising the antisemitic nature of them.

I think people need to explain why all of that is untrue and why the authorities are lying before accusing others of bias etc. it's flirting with a pretty big and old conspiracy theory!

Reading though this makes quite clear that the authorities are aware of what happened but not of it justifies what followed. That seems a reasonable conclusion to me.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/rellen-amsterdam-maccabi-tel-aviv~bae84eed/

I dont engage much with the Israel/ Palestine debates because I think it's an impossible situation. I think there's extremists on both sides. It definitely shouldn't be used to justify violence thousands of miles away and certainly isn't a reason to start disbelieving the authorities on the ground.

Why do you call on people you disagree with to explain themselves, when you’ve done nothing to address the fact (emphasis fact) that two people who videod events on the night have said that those videos featured Tel Aviv fans, not a bunch of anti Semites as reported by the likes of CNN and the BBC. Also, I don’t think there’s been any mention from you as to why Sky completely changed the emphasis of their reporting from what they said originally has there?

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Why do you call on people you disagree with to explain themselves, when you’ve done nothing to address the fact (emphasis fact) that two people who videod events on the night have said that those videos featured Tel Aviv fans, not a bunch of anti Semites as reported by the likes of CNN and the BBC. Also, I don’t think there’s been any mention from you as to why Sky completely changed the emphasis of their reporting from what they said originally has there?

Why do you think that an internet video of one incident trumps the opinion of the Dutch Prime Minister, Mayor Of Amsterdam, chief of police etc?

Will this be your consistent approach to riots now?

The police arrested people on both sides. We know that. But the authorities have clearly stated that this in no way justified what followed.

I'll repeat a selection of the quotes. Not from internet interviews. But from people responsible for managing the city in question who will have full account of details.

Why do you so blithely dismiss it?

Authorities say Thursday's attacks - which caused five people to be hospitalised - were motivated by antisemitism as the fans were sought out across the city."

"We must not turn blind eye to antisemitism, says Dutch king after attacks on Israeli football fans"

"I am deeply ashamed of the behaviour that unfolded," Halsema told reporters. "On Telegram [messaging] groups people talked of going to hunt down Jews. It's so terrible I can't find the words for it."

"The national co-ordinator for combating antisemitism in the Netherlands said a line had been crossed and the "readiness to commit such violence was disgusting".

Prime Minister Dick Schoof said earlier on Monday that "antisemitic attacks against Israelis and Jews" were "nothing short of shocking and reprehensible".

"Halsema and the heads of the Dutch police and prosecution said at a press conference on Friday that violence by “rioters and criminals” aimed at some of the 2,600 “Jewish Israeli visitors” had left five people in hospital and 20 to 30 with minor injuries. There were reports of fireworks set off, people being thrown into canals and some Maccabi supporters being asked for identity documents in order to be allowed back to their hotels."

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Why do you think that an internet video of one incident trumps the opinion of the Dutch Prime Minister, Mayor Of Amsterdam, chief of police etc?

Will this be your consistent approach to riots now?

The police arrested people on both sides. We know that. But the authorities have clearly stated that this in no way justified what followed.

I'll repeat a selection of the quotes. Not from internet interviews. But from people responsible for managing the city in question who will have full account of details.

Why do you so blithely dismiss it?

Authorities say Thursday's attacks - which caused five people to be hospitalised - were motivated by antisemitism as the fans were sought out across the city."

"We must not turn blind eye to antisemitism, says Dutch king after attacks on Israeli football fans"

"I am deeply ashamed of the behaviour that unfolded," Halsema told reporters. "On Telegram [messaging] groups people talked of going to hunt down Jews. It's so terrible I can't find the words for it."

"The national co-ordinator for combating antisemitism in the Netherlands said a line had been crossed and the "readiness to commit such violence was disgusting".

Prime Minister Dick Schoof said earlier on Monday that "antisemitic attacks against Israelis and Jews" were "nothing short of shocking and reprehensible".

"Halsema and the heads of the Dutch police and prosecution said at a press conference on Friday that violence by “rioters and criminals” aimed at some of the 2,600 “Jewish Israeli visitors” had left five people in hospital and 20 to 30 with minor injuries. There were reports of fireworks set off, people being thrown into canals and some Maccabi supporters being asked for identity documents in order to be allowed back to their hotels."

It's a video filmed by a journalist , that's why it is believed

Who has been interviewed about it

It's a fact

There is no " opinion " about it

Unlike your twaddle on here

You are an embarrassment to yourself sometimes how you can use the word blithely dismiss about other is perfect in describing your brass neck

The comments about the events by NM news journalists on here are perfect to describe the situation being presented and perfect for describing you

You simply won't accept that even you can be wrong but you are

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Why do you think that an internet video of one incident trumps the opinion of the Dutch Prime Minister, Mayor Of Amsterdam, chief of police etc?

Will this be your consistent approach to riots now?

The police arrested people on both sides. We know that. But the authorities have clearly stated that this in no way justified what followed.

I'll repeat a selection of the quotes. Not from internet interviews. But from people responsible for managing the city in question who will have full account of details.

Why do you so blithely dismiss it?

Authorities say Thursday's attacks - which caused five people to be hospitalised - were motivated by antisemitism as the fans were sought out across the city."

"We must not turn blind eye to antisemitism, says Dutch king after attacks on Israeli football fans"

"I am deeply ashamed of the behaviour that unfolded," Halsema told reporters. "On Telegram [messaging] groups people talked of going to hunt down Jews. It's so terrible I can't find the words for it."

"The national co-ordinator for combating antisemitism in the Netherlands said a line had been crossed and the "readiness to commit such violence was disgusting".

Prime Minister Dick Schoof said earlier on Monday that "antisemitic attacks against Israelis and Jews" were "nothing short of shocking and reprehensible".

"Halsema and the heads of the Dutch police and prosecution said at a press conference on Friday that violence by “rioters and criminals” aimed at some of the 2,600 “Jewish Israeli visitors” had left five people in hospital and 20 to 30 with minor injuries. There were reports of fireworks set off, people being thrown into canals and some Maccabi supporters being asked for identity documents in order to be allowed back to their hotels."

If you weren't so one eyed you'd quickly understand why a report from an eye witness and journalist who was actually amongst the rioters as the events unfolded would trump anything the authorities would say.

It's painfully simple: she was there at the time and she has no ulterior motive other than to report the facts. On the other hand, the Dutch Prime Minister, The Dutch King, the Mayor of Amsterdam and the Chief of Police were not at the scene at the time and received at best second hand reports. Moreover, they all share an ulterior motive which does not permit unbiased assessment.

Like Sludge said your cherished right wing faith has kippered you in this thread

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Why do you call on people you disagree with to explain themselves, when you’ve done nothing to address the fact (emphasis fact) that two people who videod events on the night have said that those videos featured Tel Aviv fans, not a bunch of anti Semites as reported by the likes of CNN and the BBC. Also, I don’t think there’s been any mention from you as to why Sky completely changed the emphasis of their reporting from what they said originally has there?

Yes indeed

Why have sky news initially reported the violence filmed as being poor , innocent (sic) Jewish fans being attacked ?

Because it was local Arabic youths being chased and assaulted by these poor innocent Jewish etc etc etc

What's that abut then jimbo ?

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Why do you call on people you disagree with to explain themselves, when you’ve done nothing to address the fact (emphasis fact) that two people who videod events on the night have said that those videos featured Tel Aviv fans, not a bunch of anti Semites as reported by the likes of CNN and the BBC. Also, I don’t think there’s been any mention from you as to why Sky completely changed the emphasis of their reporting from what they said originally has there?

This dangerous nonsense is not too dissimilar to the witch hunt perpetrated on Jeremy Corbyn by the present incumbents of Labour's top table, among others.

This conflation of anti - Zionism and anti-Semitism (by the way I hate using this term, it's so corrupted) is so wicked it needs to be called out as it's often a ploy used to excuse Israeli excesses.

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

It's a video filmed by a journalist , that's why it is believed

Who has been interviewed about it

It's a fact

There is no " opinion " about it

Unlike your twaddle on here

You are an embarrassment to yourself sometimes how you can use the word blithely dismiss about other is perfect in describing your brass neck

The comments about the events by NM news journalists on here are perfect to describe the situation being presented and perfect for describing you

You simply won't accept that even you can be wrong but you are

But I do accept the video. The video feeds into the much wider conclusions that have been drawn, and it is those that YOU do not seem to accept.

For you to label anyone one eyed is quite something Sludge!

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

This dangerous nonsense is not too dissimilar to the witch hunt perpetrated on Jeremy Corbyn by the present incumbents of Labour's top table, among others.

This conflation of anti - Zionism and anti-Semitism (by the way I hate using this term, it's so corrupted) is so wicked it needs to be called out as it's often a ploy used to excuse Israeli excesses.

Well the Dutch parliament is debating anti semitism today and the Dutch cabinet is presenting a plan on Friday.

Quite clearly you, Bob or Sludge need to email over a link to this game changing Owen Jones video pronto cos it clearly undermines what all the supposed experts in the police and government think.

"In The Hague, meanwhile, the Lower House debate has begun on the riots. This comes a day after the Amsterdam city council debated the events of the past week. The cabinet is working on measures against anti-Semitism; it wants to present a concrete plan on Friday."

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/rellen-amsterdam-maccabi-tel-aviv~bae84eed/

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Well the Dutch parliament is debating anti semitism today and the Dutch cabinet is presenting a plan on Friday.

Quite clearly you, Bob or Sludge need to email over a link to this game changing Owen Jones video pronto cos it clearly undermines what all the supposed experts in the police and government think.

"In The Hague, meanwhile, the Lower House debate has begun on the riots. This comes a day after the Amsterdam city council debated the events of the past week. The cabinet is working on measures against anti-Semitism; it wants to present a concrete plan on Friday."

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland...aviv~bae84eed/

I think you missed the point. The Dutch government doesn't need any evidence; they have an agenda to maintain.

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I think you missed the point. The Dutch government doesn't need any evidence; they have an agenda to maintain.

I'm sure it is! All seems to be coming back to a big ole conspiracy!

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I'm sure it is! All seems to be coming back to a big ole conspiracy!

Now you're talking!

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Now you're talking!

At least we know now that you are arguing from a conspiracy theory perspective. Thanks for making it clear 😊👍

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

At least we know now that you are arguing from a conspiracy theory perspective. Thanks for making it clear 😊👍

No not at all, of course you're twisting things as ever to suit your right wing agenda. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see 😵

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

No not at all, of course you're twisting things as ever to suit your right wing agenda. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see 😵

🤣

I thought we had made some progress then!