Amsterdam Violence

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

🤣

It would be impossible to make progress with a clown like you 🤡

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

What is interesting is that the positioning and language of the key groups that James has referenced, Mayor, Chief of Police and Prime Minister has moved over time.

Perhaps unsurprisingly the Prime Minister of the recently elected right wing coalition who came to power on an anti-immigration ticket has maintained and hardened its line that this was anti-semitism, pure and simple.

However, the Mayor and the Chief of Amsterdam Police have softened their position calling it a "toxic cocktail" but apportioning responsibility for the cause and effect more broadly than their initial statements. They have produced an authoritative letter chronicling events before, during and after the violence. It is well worth a read. No group comes out of this well and it also shows the political pressure being brought to bare from Israel and elsewhere.

It's opening paragraph gives an insight into the events:

On 8 November, horrifying images shocked the world after the night that Amsterdam had endured. Four days later, anger, fear, and disbelief still prevail. We have seen footage of Israeli football supporters being pursued, attacked, and brutalized; screenshots of antisemitic messages calling for a ‘hunt on Jews’, and videos filled with hate-fueled, racist chants against ‘Arabs’. From the tearing down and burning of a Palestinian flag to targeted assaults on Jewish and Israeli supporters, numerous antisemitic expressions were made. The local authorities (consisting of the mayor, police chief, and chief public prosecutor) explicitly emphasize that violence by one party is never an excuse for violence by another. These events have targeted our city, and citizens.

https://assets.amsterdam.nl/publish/pages/1060864/council_letter_11_novermber_2024.pdf

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

But I do accept the video. The video feeds into the much wider conclusions that have been drawn, and it is those that YOU do not seem to accept.

For you to label anyone one eyed is quite something Sludge!

You accept that the video was shown on news channels as local Muslims attacking poor innocent Israeli football fans ?

If you accept that then you accept that this was in fact a complete lie by the newscaster you ask us to believe?

The video was in fact a film by an independent journalist of .......Israeli thugs attacking Muslim youths ........that's a fact ......you accept this ?

Yes ?

If you therfore accept this then you are accepting that your initial views and comments are completely wrong and based on false information ? Was the views of others that you quote ?

If that's what you are saying .....then we accept your mistake ....it takes a man to accept he makes errors.....well done

Is this , hopefully , your admission that you were wrong ?

Simple question , one word answer

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

At least we know now that you are arguing from a conspiracy theory perspective. Thanks for making it clear 😊👍

He's arguing from a factual viewpoint

Are you saying that video evidence is now false ?

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

What is interesting is that the positioning and language of the key groups that James has referenced, Mayor, Chief of Police and Prime Minister has moved over time.

Perhaps unsurprisingly the Prime Minister of the recently elected right wing coalition who came to power on an anti-immigration ticket has maintained and hardened its line that this was anti-semitism, pure and simple.

However, the Mayor and the Chief of Amsterdam Police have softened their position calling it a "toxic cocktail" but apportioning responsibility for the cause and effect more broadly than their initial statements. They have produced an authoritative letter chronicling events before, during and after the violence. It is well worth a read. No group comes out of this well and it also shows the political pressure being brought to bare from Israel and elsewhere.

It's opening paragraph gives an insight into the events:

On 8 November, horrifying images shocked the world after the night that Amsterdam had endured. Four days later, anger, fear, and disbelief still prevail. We have seen footage of Israeli football supporters being pursued, attacked, and brutalized; screenshots of antisemitic messages calling for a ‘hunt on Jews’, and videos filled with hate-fueled, racist chants against ‘Arabs’. From the tearing down and burning of a Palestinian flag to targeted assaults on Jewish and Israeli supporters, numerous antisemitic expressions were made. The local authorities (consisting of the mayor, police chief, and chief public prosecutor) explicitly emphasize that violence by one party is never an excuse for violence by another. These events have targeted our city, and citizens.

https://assets.amsterdam.nl/publish/...rmber_2024.pdf

The latest news is that due to the result of the recent US election the Israeli government is emboldened to seek US support to achieve legal sanction to the annexing of the West Bank. I wonder if the Dutch government will be one of the first in line to endorse this plan?

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

He's arguing from a factual viewpoint

Are you saying that video evidence is now false ?

The video of one small part of several days worth of disorder is a snapshot. It feeds into the broader conclusion that authorities in Amsterdam have made.

It's like pointing to one small part of any riot or incident and pretending it shows the full story. It doesn't.

The authorities have quite clearly said that serious incidents of antisemitism occured alongside other disorder. The latest example of this is given in Cyril's post above.

No one disputes that. That's what I have literally said from the very first post on this thread. I've stuck to that line because all the evidence suggests it's the truth.

I have no idea what your motivation is on this thread. I find it truly bizarre and a touch disturbing tbh, but it seems to keep coming back to some desire to prove that there was no antisemitic incidents when everything points to the fact there was and I dont know why you (and others) can't accept that.

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

The video of one small part of several days worth of disorder is a snapshot. It feeds into the broader conclusion that authorities in Amsterdam have made.

It's like pointing to one small part of any riot or incident and pretending it shows the full story. It doesn't.

The authorities have quite clearly said that serious incidents of antisemitism occured alongside other disorder. The latest example of this is given in Cyril's post above.

No one disputes that. That's what I have literally said from the very first post on this thread. I've stuck to that line because all the evidence suggests it's the truth.

I have no idea what your motivation is on this thread. I find it truly bizarre and a touch disturbing tbh, but it seems to keep coming back to some desire to prove that there was no antisemitic incidents when everything points to the fact there was and I dont know why you (and others) can't accept that.

Thugs burning flags, beating up a taxi driver and chanting horrible slogans about dead innocent children is a situation which is very likely to inflame tensions. You can call it anti-Semitism if it fits more snugly with your agenda but some of us see it as the retaliatory demonstration of repugnance at crass misbehaviour.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

The video of one small part of several days worth of disorder is a snapshot. It feeds into the broader conclusion that authorities in Amsterdam have made.

It's like pointing to one small part of any riot or incident and pretending it shows the full story. It doesn't.

The authorities have quite clearly said that serious incidents of antisemitism occured alongside other disorder. The latest example of this is given in Cyril's post above.

No one disputes that. That's what I have literally said from the very first post on this thread. I've stuck to that line because all the evidence suggests it's the truth.

I have no idea what your motivation is on this thread. I find it truly bizarre and a touch disturbing tbh, but it seems to keep coming back to some desire to prove that there was no antisemitic incidents when everything points to the fact there was and I dont know why you (and others) can't accept that.

My motivation is nothing to do with anti Semitic nonsense .......that's the second time you have mentioned that......I pulled you up on it previously and said where have I suggested you are anti Semitic? .....please don't insult my intelligence as you have just done it again here

This video report .......answer the question you keep dodging

Why was it portrayed as Muslims attacking Israeli fans ?

To be concerned about clear misinformation is attacked as anti Semitic........and there are plenty of people far more important than you who have been guilty of this

The end of the video you time after time keep ignoring is hilarious as it points out that every Tom, dick and Harry is wading in on the side of this complete stitch up .....and it's worth you , even in secret , watching it

I think you will wince though

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Thugs burning flags, beating up a taxi driver and chanting horrible slogans about dead innocent children is a situation which is very likely to inflame tensions. You can call it anti-Semitism if it fits more snugly with your agenda but some of us see it as the retaliatory demonstration of repugnance at crass misbehaviour.

Of course it will inflame tensions. It doesn't justify arbitrary abuse and violence towards people unconnected to it because of their religion or nationality or anything else!

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

My motivation is nothing to do with anti Semitic nonsense .......that's the second time you have mentioned that......I pulled you up on it previously and said where have I suggested you are anti Semitic? .....please don't insult my intelligence as you have just done it again here

This video report .......answer the question you keep dodging

Why was it portrayed as Muslims attacking Israeli fans ?

To be concerned about clear misinformation is attacked as anti Semitic........and there are plenty of people far more important than you who have been guilty of this

The end of the video you time after time keep ignoring is hilarious as it points out that every Tom, dick and Harry is wading in on the side of this complete stitch up .....and it's worth you , even in secret , watching it

I think you will wince though

Stop going on about the video! Everyone has seen it! It's a snapshot of a lot of events. My god.

If your intention is nothing to do with trying to suggest nothing antisemitic happened then why are you posting it? Cos that's what everyone involved has concluded. Why can't you accept it?!

It's like Cardiff City losing 3-1 and you showing th video of us scoring and demanding it means we won!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Thugs burning flags, beating up a taxi driver and chanting horrible slogans about dead innocent children is a situation which is very likely to inflame tensions. You can call it anti-Semitism if it fits more snugly with your agenda but some of us see it as the retaliatory demonstration of repugnance at crass misbehaviour.

To be fair to JW he's all over the shop and doesn't know who is attacking who here

I can forgive him but the major of Amsterdam?

Having said that he is very right wing so , for now , will side with Israel .....but in time who knows ?

[Dorcus]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Of course it will inflame tensions. It doesn't justify arbitrary abuse and violence towards people unconnected to it!

No indeed not but of course the same could be said for the slaughter of innocence people unconnected with last year's 7th October attacks!

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

No indeed not but of course the same could be said for the slaughter of innocence people unconnected with last year's 7th October attacks!

I don't dispute that!

As ive said on here several times I'm talking about what happened in Amsterdam.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Stop going on about the video! Everyone has seen it! It's a snapshot of a lot of events. My god.

It's like Cardiff City losing 3-1 and you showing th video of us scoring and demanding it means we won!

You havnt commented on the video

You say you have watched it

If you have you would simply accept your faux pas .....which you should

Or , in your case , talk rubbish till everyone loses the will to bother arguing the toss with a dead weight

So , the video .....

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

I don't dispute that!

As ive said on here several times I'm talking about what happened in Amsterdam.

So are we

Never mind your anti Semitic rubbish

Video footage.....