Farmers are revolting

[JamesWales]

Re: Farmers are revolting

The majority of farmers voted brexit

Return to sender

UK food exports are well up since Brexit. You just don't read about it

https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/uk-food-exports-are-proving-remarkably-resilient/

[JamesWales]

Re: Farmers are revolting

Will Hutton did an interesting piece in The Observer yesterday. If his take is right (he has always been very careful with his numbers) there will be 500 rich farmers affected each year tops, and the tractor convoys organised by the NFU claiming small hill farmers will be driven under by inheritance tax changes are all bollux:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-rural-britain

The difference of course is that the asset is fundamental to the job of farming. Owning land may be an asset to me, to sell or develop etc, but for farms it is a requirement of the job.

It does seem another mistake from the government to me. An unnecessary fight and a risky one given the importance and fragility of the sector

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Farmers are revolting

The majority of farmers voted brexit

Return to sender

The NFU favoured staying in the EU.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Farmers are revolting

UK food exports are well up since Brexit. You just don't read about it

https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.u...bly-resilient/

So Brexit has been an unqualified success for farming?

[JamesWales]

Re: Farmers are revolting

So Brexit has been an unqualified success for farming?

Dunno. But food exports are well up which is unlikely to be bad. I think the changes to agriculture payments are positive.

Farmers across the EU spent much of this year protesting too.

I doubt it all makes that much difference in reality

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Farmers are revolting

The NFU favoured staying in the EU.

Well the NFU seem sensible

Farmers are generally very odd

[delmbox]

Re: Farmers are revolting

Really?

Your position is surely more Jeremy Clarkson than Pastor Niemoller.

'Nooooooooooo!' would be more appropriate.

I thought it was quite a good joke

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Farmers are revolting

Dunno. But food exports are well up which is unlikely to be bad. I think the changes to agriculture payments are positive.

Farmers across the EU spent much of this year protesting too.

I doubt it all makes that much difference in reality

Jimbo, I'm a little disappointed in you using a small piece of information to come to a conclusion.

Let's see what the farmers say?

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/brexit/what-happened-to-those-post-brexit-farm-subsidies/

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/analysis-7-years-after-brexit-farmers-count-the-cost

https://westcountryvoices.com/brexit-and-farming/

Obviously we should take into account, farmers are notoriously moaning bastards who in the main see a lovely field with a family having a picnic, and there’s a nice pond in it, they fill in the pond with concrete, they plough the family into the field, blow up the tree, and use the leaves to make a dress for their wife who’s also your brother.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Farmers are revolting

Jimbo, I'm a little disappointed in you using a small piece of information to come to a conclusion.

Let's see what the farmers say?

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/brexit/what-happened-to-those-post-brexit-farm-subsidies/

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/analysis-7-years-after-brexit-farmers-count-the-cost

https://westcountryvoices.com/brexit-and-farming/

Obviously we should take into account, farmers are notoriously moaning bastards who in the main see a lovely field with a family having a picnic, and there’s a nice pond in it, they fill in the pond with concrete, they plough the family into the field, blow up the tree, and use the leaves to make a dress for their wife who’s also your brother.

I've seen all the big eared boys on farms

[JamesWales]

Re: Farmers are revolting

Jimbo, I'm a little disappointed in you using a small piece of information to come to a conclusion.

Let's see what the farmers say?

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/brexit/what-happened-to-those-post-brexit-farm-subsidies/

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/analysis-7-years-after-brexit-farmers-count-the-cost

https://westcountryvoices.com/brexit-and-farming/

Obviously we should take into account, farmers are notoriously moaning bastards who in the main see a lovely field with a family having a picnic, and there’s a nice pond in it, they fill in the pond with concrete, they plough the family into the field, blow up the tree, and use the leaves to make a dress for their wife who’s also your brother.

The fact is that food exports are growing pretty well and we were told the opposite would happen.

I'm sure there are a gr at diversity of opinions on it, but it's pretty clear that none of it drove them to protest unlike what's happening today, and also as has been happening all year across the EU. Indeed one can speculate that the farmers here would have been protesting had we not left?!

[jon1959]

Re: Farmers are revolting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o

Paul Johnson, the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), an independent economy think-tank, told Sky News: "The changes will affect a remarkably small number of some of the most valuable farms."

He added: "[Farms are] still more generously treated, actually, than farms used to be in decades past."

The Treasury estimates that 500 estates including agricultural land will be affected by the agricultural property relief reform, external per year.

Dan Neidle, an independent tax expert, says the number of actual farms, external affected is likely to be below 500 per year.

There were a total of 462 inherited farms valued above £1m in 2021-22, according to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), external:

345 valued between £1m and £2.5m

80 at £2.5m to £5m

37 above £5m

Under the new rules, those 462 farms would be affected by the 20% inheritance tax on any value above £1m (not on the whole value).

However, as Mr Neidle points out, like for the rest of the population, there is no inheritance tax to be paid on the value of property up to £325,000, bringing the untaxed total to £1.325m.

If a farmer is married, his or her spouse would be able to pass on another £1.325m tax free, taking the total untaxed amount to £2.65m.

There were 117 farms valued above £2.5m in 2021-22, according to the HMRC figures, external.

In addition, there is an £175,000 tax-free allowance on a main residence when it's being passed on to children or grandchildren. This brings the total untaxed amount for a farming couple to up to £3m.

Steve Reed, the secretary of state for the environment, food and rural affairs, confirmed the "vast majority" of farmers will not be affected by changes. Writing in the Telegraph, external, he said "only the richest estates will be asked to pay".

[JamesWales]

Re: Farmers are revolting

That's 500 farms a year mind, payable upon death, which you never know when it's coming and is likely to land people with a hefty bill that they simply may not have as many farmers are asset rich and cash poor.

It does strike me as the govt picking the wrong fight, especially given the importance of the sector and the fact that the land is a requirement of the function of the farm, as opposed to land anyone else may happen to own.

I wonder if a better idea may be to look more at taxes when farmland is sold for non farm uses? That is where that can be extraordinary profits generated and the argument that we would be hitting viable farms is greatly reduced as by definition the land has been sold out of agricultural use anyway.

[jon1959]

Re: Farmers are revolting

That's 500 farms a year mind, payable upon death, which you never know when it's coming and is likely to land people with a hefty bill that they simply may not have as many farmers are asset rich and cash poor.

It does strike me as the govt picking the wrong fight, especially given the importance of the sector and the fact that the land is a requirement of the function of the farm, as opposed to land anyone else may happen to own.

I wonder if a better idea may be to look more at taxes when farmland is sold for non farm uses? That is where that can be extraordinary profits generated and the argument that we would be hitting viable farms is greatly reduced as by definition the land has been sold out of agricultural use anyway.

I'm not that bothered either way with the inheritance tax changes - although I can see the sense in the Will Hutton argument, and the 70,000+ farms affected figure thrown about by the NFU, the Tories, the Lib Dems and the Tory press is deliberately misleading.

But I agree with you on your main point (wow!). I think the Budget focus should have been on taxing profits - especially excess profits - and not some of the other measures that are bound to wash through to jobs, wages and prices (employer NI etc).

The Starmer government is a typical centrist western Neo Liberal government of the past quarter century and seems happy to look on as a massive wealth transfer takes place from the poor (and some not so poor) to the mega rich. Despite the shallow roots, Starmer's huge majority was an opportunity to introduce radical game-changing policies and Starmer/Reeves opted for status quo fiddling in the budget. The needle nudged slightly on the side of progressive/redistributive but only slightly.

[JamesWales]

Re: Farmers are revolting

I'm not that bothered either way with the inheritance tax changes - although I can see the sense in the Will Hutton argument, and the 70,000+ farms affected figure thrown about by the NFU, the Tories, the Lib Dems and the Tory press is deliberately misleading.

But I agree with you on your main point (wow!). I think the Budget focus should have been on taxing profits - especially excess profits - and not some of the other measures that are bound to wash through to jobs, wages and prices (employer NI etc).

The Starmer government is a typical centrist western Neo Liberal government of the past quarter century and seems happy to look on as a massive wealth transfer takes place from the poor (and some not so poor) to the mega rich. Despite the shallow roots, Starmer's huge majority was an opportunity to introduce radical game-changing policies and Starmer/Reeves opted for status quo fiddling in the budget. The needle nudged slightly on the side of progressive/redistributive but only slightly.

Yeah I don't think anyone would argue in that scenario. Encourages agricultural use, recognises the role of land in production of food whilst recognises the vast profits available when land is removed from that sector

[fingers]

Re: Farmers are revolting

Farmers? What the ones who always vote Tory, the party that left a £20 billion black hole in the finances resulting in the need to change inheritance tax rules?
Farmers? The ones who used to get billions of European money to throw their produce away, then went and voted for Brexit.
Farmers? The same ones where the inheritance tax would only affect 500 farmers because they’re already ****ing millionaires?
Farmers? The ones who took it up the arse from Tesco and Asda, and who undercut their neighbouring farms?
Farmers? The same ones who started this ‘No Farmers, No Food’ campaign BEFORE Labour got into power knowing their number was up even under the Tories
Farmers? The ones who’d rather fcuk a sheep as it’s tighter than their sister’s fcuking brother!
Fcuk ‘em