Evolving or Mutating?

[truthpaste]

Shhhh, don't mention this to those convinced that Evolution points to a brighter future, City eventually stuffing Barcelona and an interface for your smartphone next to your kidneys, but it's a scientific fact that at birth children typically have 70 new genetic mutations compared to their parents. This would suggest that rather than moving towards perfection, getting stronger and brighter, we are actually degenerating!
If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

On another thread, Taunton Blue Genie was wondering if Bible reading Christians (yes there are a few) had any reasonable knowledge of modern Evolution?

On this thread we will explore that question...?

[truthpaste]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

Science says:- "Evolution is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change"

Those like me who accept the Creators account of the origin of life have no issue with the above statement. This is for the following reasons:-

(1) We can observe changes within types of animals; some dogs have long hair so thrive better in colder climates, so adaptation comes through this and other body variations. This is known as micro-evolution or variations within a particular group.
(2) Science observes these things and like it says - "biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change" - and they have. This is again micro-evolution.

None of these facts cut across one word in the Bible, as God granted all creatures DNA which is noted by those who write software this way - "DNA is complex, DNA is organized in chromatin, which is more complex than a human-made software system". This allows for speciation which CAN be observed but remains within the type of creature - ie cat type, dog type etc

However what Taunton Blue Genie and all science-only individuals dream of, is finding proof of Macro Evolution; which would allow one type of creature to develop into another type etc etc; which would be how (given enough) time, you could turn slime into a low level sea creature, then a land creature and *eventually into a brain surgeon!

*For this remarkable sequence to occur (which incidently takes far more faith than any theist like myself) you also need two other things to happen:-

(A) The production of brand new information.
(B) The organisation of that new information (ie a brain or nucleus to understand and run that new data/ information and allow it to work with your existing/ former materials).

So for science to dismiss the account given by God, the proof of macro-evolution has to be provided, as micro evolution is as far from being the answer as you can get.

[stevo]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

None of these facts cut across one word in the Bible, as God granted all creatures DNA which is noted by those who write software this way - "DNA is complex, DNA is organized in chromatin, which is more complex than a human-made software system". This allows for speciation which CAN be observed but remains within the type of creature - ie cat type, dog type etc

Does the Bible mention DNA at any point?

However what Taunton Blue Genie and all science-only individuals dream of, is finding proof of Macro Evolution; which would allow one type of creature to develop into another type etc etc; which would be how (given enough) time, you could turn slime into a low level sea creature, then a land creature and *eventually into a brain surgeon!

What's your take on Neanderthals and other subfamilies of homininae?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

Shhhh, don't mention this to those convinced that Evolution points to a brighter future, City eventually stuffing Barcelona and an interface for your smartphone next to your kidneys, but it's a scientific fact that at birth children typically have 70 new genetic mutations compared to their parents. This would suggest that rather than moving towards perfection, getting stronger and brighter, we are actually degenerating!
If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

On another thread, Taunton Blue Genie was wondering if Bible reading Christians (yes there are a few) had any reasonable knowledge of modern Evolution?

On this thread we will explore that question...?

I can't say that I have ever heard such a dopey statement made by anyone. Have you? Or are you fabricating yet another strawman argument?

[truthpaste]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

I can't say that I have ever heard such a dopey statement made by anyone. Have you? Or are you fabricating yet another strawman argument?

Well it could be said that the information age presents the last straw for evolution. You will know that science comes from the Latin and means "knowledge, awareness & understanding" - so let's hear your understanding of it and what specific knowledge leads you to trust those who have placed it in front of you?

I have presented you with the problem of each generation having more genetic mistakes than the previous one, what is your reply?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

Well it could be said that the information age presents the last straw for evolution. You will know that science comes from the Latin and means "knowledge, awareness & understanding" - so let's hear your understanding of it and what specific knowledge leads you to trust those who have placed it in front of you?

I have presented you with the problem of each generation having more genetic mistakes than the previous one, what is your reply?

I see that you avoided answering my question.

As for your question, I am no expert in DNA and I am not sure if genetic mutations are considered to be mistakes or if your assertion is true.

[truthpaste]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

I see that you avoided answering my question.

As for your question, I am no expert in DNA and I am not sure if genetic mutations are considered to be mistakes or if your assertion is true.

No, I am NOT misrepresenting your chosen hope for the origin of mankind, I have exposed it at the foundational level. So don't blame me if it crumbles like an unwanted skyscaper; just examine the foundations for yourself.

You have trusted some human scientists; now check up on them.

Psalm 118:8 - it is better to trust the Lord than put confidence in man.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

Shhhh half past 3, bahhhhhhhhhh.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

That's called social conditioning, and somewhere between 66.6% and 80% of the population aren't even aware of it.

[truthpaste]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

That's called social conditioning, and somewhere between 66.6% and 80% of the population aren't even aware of it.

Indeed, and as a society the more we CAN know about the things that really matter.....
the less we seem to know :xmassherlock:

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

No, I am NOT misrepresenting your chosen hope for the origin of mankind, I have exposed it at the foundational level. So don't blame me if it crumbles like an unwanted skyscaper; just examine the foundations for yourself.

You have trusted some human scientists; now check up on them.

Psalm 118:8 - it is better to trust the Lord than put confidence in man.

Yet again you misrepresent my comments and viewpoint! I have never stated that I have such a 'hope' and have stated that I have no vested interest in what science discovers.
I really can't discuss anything with you further as you deliberately and dishonestly do the same at every turn. I'm out - as it's impossible to have a rational conversation with you without your perverse misinterpretations.

[truthpaste]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

Yet again you misrepresent my comments and viewpoint! I have never stated that I have such a 'hope' and have stated that I have no vested interest in what science discovers.
I really can't discuss anything with you further as you deliberately and dishonestly do the same at every turn. I'm out - as it's impossible to have a rational conversation with you without your perverse misinterpretations.

It's impossible to have any meaningful conversation with you because like many of the people in your agnostic camp, you've given almost no thought to the position you've chosen. Silence is then the best option.

[Canton Kev]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

If you somehow doubt that, imagine todays teenagers ripped away from their Smartphones, X-boxes and Just-Eat delivery and thrust onto the front line of WW1.

Were the teens of the 1910’s that got slaughtered in their ten’s of thousands by bombs, bullet and disease some sort of Rambo-esque super soldiers?

[Canton Kev]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

It's impossible to have any meaningful conversation with you because like many of the people in your agnostic camp, you've given almost no thought to the position you've chosen. Silence is then the best option.

The pot is using a megaphone to call the kettle black here :hehe:

[truthpaste]

Re: Evolving or Mutating?

The pot is using a megaphone to call the kettle black here :hehe:

Very amusing. The issue is this on this subject and so many others.......

Any moron can yell "wrong, wrong, wrong!"

If you dislike someone's take on life and their views on origin, purpose and destiny. Get a robust view you can understand, stand up and defend.

Not someone else's idea (that you can't defend) off the nearest shelf.