Palestine Action

[stevo]

Re: Palestine Action

I think the legal definition of things does matter tbh.

So, are you seeing a difference between the legal definition of genocide and what’s happening in Gaza? If so, please explain.

JamesWales - I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on this.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

JamesWales - I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on this.

It's a war. It's ****ing horrendous. People are dying by the bucket load and it's heartbreaking and disgraceful but yes, whether or not a genocide is happening is not for me or others to determine when there is a legal definition, no? The dynamics of the war for me are less about genocide and more about the two sides having vastly disproportionate military hardware, which guarantees greatly more suffering on one side than the other, with absolutely tragic consequences for Palestinians.

I'm not really interested in the debate tbh. I think it's being exploited and it actually doesn't help bring an end to it at all. So personally I think it wise to stick to a legal definition. Others can argue it out if they so wish. I don't think throwing the word around has helped the conflict end quicker.

Cue a barrage of abuse now. (Which is why I'm not really interested in the debate over the technical definition of a word)

[az city]

Re: Palestine Action

It's a war. It's ****ing horrendous. People are dying by the bucket load and it's heartbreaking and disgraceful but yes, whether or not a genocide is happening is not for me or others to determine when there is a legal definition, no? The dynamics of the war for me are less about genocide and more about the two sides having vastly disproportionate military hardware, which guarantees greatly more suffering on one side than the other, with absolutely tragic consequences for Palestinians.

I'm not really interested in the debate tbh. I think it's being exploited and it actually doesn't help bring an end to it at all. So personally I think it wise to stick to a legal definition. Others can argue it out if they so wish. I don't think throwing the word around has helped the conflict end quicker.

Cue a barrage of abuse now. (Which is why I'm not really interested in the debate over the technical definition of a word)

You would have been (presumably) in favour of jail for gay people, against universal suffrage and pro slavery given, at the time, those were all illegal too. Or is the "law" an organic thing that eventually arcs towards justice and is incorrectly configured at present?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

What happens to Palestine Action in September if the Government recognises the Palestinian state?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

You would have been (presumably) in favour of jail for gay people, against universal suffrage and pro slavery given, at the time, those were all illegal too. Or is the "law" an organic thing that eventually arcs towards justice and is incorrectly configured at present?

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

JW's view of the "law" is exactly the same as Trump's.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

You would have been (presumably) in favour of jail for gay people, against universal suffrage and pro slavery given, at the time, those were all illegal too. Or is the "law" an organic thing that eventually arcs towards justice and is incorrectly configured at present?

Quite possibly the most stupid comment you've made on here, which is saying something.

Perhaps next time you make any statement about the rule of law I will claim you support the transatlantic slave trade too? Honestly, ridiculous.

And makes no attempt to address any of the points made

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Quite possibly the most stupid thumbs up emoji you've made on here, too!

And makes no attempt to address any of the points made!

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

JW's view of the "law" is exactly the same as Trump's.

Can't think of anything to say? Simply say:

"Something something Trump!"

If it makes you feel better you can call it what you want. No one doubts the absolute horror of it all but there are legal definitions of things and that does actually matter. Legal definitions of things don't just change because say some people say something.

It also doesn't offer a quicker route out of the war. There are things you could say to do that however.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

Quite possibly the most stupid thumbs up emoji you've made on here, too!

And makes no attempt to address any of the points made!

There was no point me saying anything, he perfectly captured how nonsensical your argument was.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

There was no point me saying, he perfected captured how nonsensical your argument was.

But I am right. A genocide has not been declared. So I am correct. And in being correct he (and now you) have made the completely incoherent, illogical and irrelevant link to the transatlantic slave trade and gay rights. It's a stupid argument and you know it. If it was an analogy it was a really shit one.

How does being legally correct about something equal supporting the slave trade? Or opposing gay rights?

[stevo]

Re: Palestine Action

It's a war. It's ****ing horrendous. People are dying by the bucket load and it's heartbreaking and disgraceful but yes, whether or not a genocide is happening is not for me or others to determine when there is a legal definition, no? The dynamics of the war for me are less about genocide and more about the two sides having vastly disproportionate military hardware, which guarantees greatly more suffering on one side than the other, with absolutely tragic consequences for Palestinians.

I'm not really interested in the debate tbh. I think it's being exploited and it actually doesn't help bring an end to it at all. So personally I think it wise to stick to a legal definition. Others can argue it out if they so wish. I don't think throwing the word around has helped the conflict end quicker.

Cue a barrage of abuse now. (Which is why I'm not really interested in the debate over the technical definition of a word)

Thank you for answering my question. I appreciate you're not interested in a debate and nor am I particularly, but I'll just leave this here and leave it at that:


Genocide - the deliberate and systematic killing of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion, political opinion or social status.


As of July 29, 2025, at least 60,034 Palestinians have been killed since the war began on October 7, 2023, according to Gaza’s Ministry of Health. This figure includes:

* 18,592 children

* 9,782 women

* Over 145,000 wounded

Thousands more are missing under rubble or presumed dead

The conflict has also led to:

* 90% of Gaza’s population displaced

* A worsening famine, with 147 deaths directly attributed to starvation

* Widespread destruction of homes, hospitals, and infrastructure

These numbers are widely cited by international organizations and humanitarian agencies, though Israel disputes them and has not provided an alternative count.

You have to ask why the BBC and most international media outlets have been barred from freely entering Gaza by the Israeli government since the war began in October 2023. Do you honestly think Netanyahu and his cronies are doing this out of concern for the safety of the journalists?

Why did Netanyahu advise Palestinians to move to the south of Gaza and then proceed to bomb that area anyway?

IDF whistle blowers have come out and have given grim details on what they were instructed to do.

There has been plenty of video footage doing the rounds of civilians being indiscriminately shot and killed, most recently while they've been queuing for food aid.

How much more evidence do you need?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

But I am right. A genocide has not been declared. So I am correct. And in being correct he (and now you) have made the completely incoherent, illogical and irrelevant link to the transatlantic slave trade and gay rights. It's a stupid argument and you know it. If it was an analogy it was a really shit one.

How does being legally correct about something equal supporting the slave trade? Or opposing gay rights?

Because people who campaigned against things that were morally and logically, but not legally wrong at one time were not proved to suddenly be right when the law changed, they’d been right all along, but the law took time to catch up with them.

Anyone who can look at the scenes we see in Gaza almost daily and is reduced to arguing that we’re not watching a genocide because it’s questionable whether it qualifies as one by the letter of the law is desperate and missing the point entirely.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Because people who campaigned against things that were morally and logically, but not legally wrong at one time were not proved to suddenly be right when the law changed, they’d been right all along, but the law took time to catch up with them.

Anyone who can look at the scenes we see in Gaza almost daily and is reduced to arguing that we’re not watching a genocide because it’s questionable whether it qualifies as one by the letter of the law is desperate and missing the point entirely.

You are absolutely taking several entirely different situations and lazily clubbing them together because I don't agree with you that you get to determine the legal status of things instead of an international court.

I completely agree on people being on the right or wrong side of history in terms of those who opposed slavery and other a great many other issues. I have on several occasions on here triumphed our role in ending the transatlantic slave trade and on any debate on the matter supported gay rights, quite possibly more than you have thoughout your life. So I don't need a moral lecture from you, AZ or anyone else on that thank you.

I also agree on the absolute horrors of the war. There is no dispute on that. I also agree I want an end to it asap. If I am honest, I think there are things people like you could have done more fruitfully in your arguments and protests in that regard but that's up to you.

I have explained that I think the horrors of Gaza are driven more by the gross unbalance in military powers between what is basically a bunch of islamist terrorists on one side and one of the world's biggest military powers on the other. I think that explains the disgraceful situation more than the pursuit of a genocide.

But that's not for me to judge, and it's not for you to judge. And it most definitely is not for you to judge my opinions on totally unrelated topics because I happen to devolve the legal definition of things to international courts as opposed to people like yourself to determine things as you see fit.

And that's why no one debates with people like you and AZ, (and the half dozen or so others on here) on it and it just becomes an echo chamber; even being in total agreement on the horrors of the situation but being correct on the legal definition of something gets someone a barrage or abuse and claims they would support slavery, oppose gay rights and not support women voting etc. You know inside what you are saying is illogical on this whether you choose to admit it or not.

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it just might be a duck!