Palestine Action

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

So you reckon that, like you, most of the country backs the arrest of a disabled blind man for wearing a T shirt with a “naughty” message on it? This country is a nastier, less empathetic place than at any time in my life, but it’s not reached that stage yet - for someone who likes to describe themselves as a voice of reason, your views are becoming ever more extreme.

Yes but that's the reality on the ground of showing support for a group who have been proscribed. An old lady supporting Palestine Action, a disabled chap supporting National Action or young militant supporting Harakat-Ul-Jihad-Ul-Islami (whoever they are). That's the reality of it. The list of those groups is here. If you show support for them, you risk arrest. Doesn't (and shouldn't) matter your age. That's why they were arrested, it comes as a surprise to no one, least of all those arrested. They knew what they were doing.

None of them should face hefty fines or sentences in my opinion, which is pretty different situation to how many who have posted "naughty messages' have faced, but I do find it arrogant that people think the law should not apply to them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Palestine Action

So you reckon that, like you, most of the country backs the arrest of a disabled blind man for wearing a T shirt with a “naughty” message on it? This country is a nastier, less empathetic place than at any time in my life, but it’s not reached that stage yet - for someone who likes to describe themselves as a voice of reason, your views are becoming ever more extreme.

Sorry Bob but I think you misunderstand James. This particular case is all about respect for the rule of law first and foremost. So if hordes of non-threatening sympathisers get arrested because they view the law that proscribed Palestine Action was unjust then so be it. The underlying cause that both Palestine Action and those arrested got their just desserts is secondary.

Likewise when he thought the most important thing to focus on during the Southport riots was not the behaviour of people trying to firebomb, lawless as it was, but the underlying causes that brought drunken and triggered hordes onto the streets you have to respect his views.

Hope that helps getting on his wavelength.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Sorry Bob but I think you misunderstand James. This particular case is all about respect for the rule of law first and foremost. So if hordes of non-threatening sympathisers get arrested because they view the law that proscribed Palestine Action was unjust then so be it. The underlying cause that both Palestine Action and those arrested got their just desserts is secondary.

Likewise when he thought the most important thing to focus on during the Southport riots was not the behaviour of people trying to firebomb, lawless as it was, but the underlying causes that brought drunken and triggered hordes onto the streets you have to respect his views.

Hope that helps getting on his wavelength.

Zzzz. And you are normally so forensic!

There are always underlying causes.

Showing support for a proscribed group will get you arrested.

Not too much more complicated than that, is it?

Or do you think the law shouldn't apply to causes that you personally support?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Palestine Action

Zzzz. And you are normally so forensic!

There are always underlying causes.

Showing support for a proscribed group will get you arrested.

Not too much more complicated than that, is it?

Or do you think the law shouldn't apply to causes that you personally support?

Think you had a fair sight of goal there James, looks like a scuffed finish!

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Think you had a fair sight of goal there James, looks like a scuffed finish!

Still crept over the line though due to some shocking goalkeeping!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

Sorry Bob but I think you misunderstand James. This particular case is all about respect for the rule of law first and foremost. So if hordes of non-threatening sympathisers get arrested because they view the law that proscribed Palestine Action was unjust then so be it. The underlying cause that both Palestine Action and those arrested got their just desserts is secondary.

Likewise when he thought the most important thing to focus on during the Southport riots was not the behaviour of people trying to firebomb, lawless as it was, but the underlying causes that brought drunken and triggered hordes onto the streets you have to respect his views.

Hope that helps getting on his wavelength.

You’ve twice said I wouldn’t contribute to a thread on a subject I didn’t care about. Well, I’d have thought I’m like 90 odd per cent of people on here in that respect, but what you’re also admitting there is that you care enough about this subject to contribute to this thread today and what is the contribution you feel you have to make? It’s that disabled, blind people and octogenarians should be arrested, fined and/or jailed for taking part in a peaceful demonstration (the Met stated none of their officers were injured yesterday) - what does that say about you?

No doubt, you’ll come back with your usual “the law is the law” justification, but, if this Government runs true to form, they’ll u turn on this latest stupid and needless decision in a few months time - I suppose the same people you want to see locked up today will be free to demonstrate if that was to happen.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Palestine Action

You’ve twice said I wouldn’t contribute to a thread on a subject I didn’t care about. Well, I’d have thought I’m like 90 odd per cent of people on here in that respect, but what you’re also admitting there is that you care enough about this subject to contribute to this thread today and what is the contribution you feel you have to make? It’s that disabled, blind people and octogenarians should be arrested, fined and/or jailed for taking part in a peaceful demonstration (the Met stated none of their officers were injured yesterday) - what does that say about you?

No doubt, you’ll come back with your usual “the law is the law” justification, but, if this Government runs true to form, they’ll u turn on this latest stupid and needless decision in a few months time - I suppose the same people you want to see locked up today will be free to demonstrate if that was to happen.

Might have wasted a shot there Bob! That's the last time I try to help

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

You’ve twice said I wouldn’t contribute to a thread on a subject I didn’t care about. Well, I’d have thought I’m like 90 odd per cent of people on here in that respect, but what you’re also admitting there is that you care enough about this subject to contribute to this thread today and what is the contribution you feel you have to make? It’s that disabled, blind people and octogenarians should be arrested, fined and/or jailed for taking part in a peaceful demonstration (the Met stated none of their officers were injured yesterday) - what does that say about you?

No doubt, you’ll come back with your usual “the law is the law” justification, but, if this Government runs true to form, they’ll u turn on this latest stupid and needless decision in a few months time - I suppose the same people you want to see locked up today will be free to demonstrate if that was to happen.

Yeah Cyril.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Palestine Action

It's good to see the police acting so swiftly in nicking Doris from Tunbridge Wells for the heinous crime of violently carrying a placard about.

These fuuckers deserve life sentences.

Hands up whose with me for throwing bricks at the Castle Hotel in Merthyr because it's rammed with immigrants?

Let's show 'Two Tier Kier' whose the fuuckkng boss!

"Oh Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy Robin..."

[stevo]

Re: Palestine Action

Quit clutching those pearls Bob. The people were arrested because it's a proscribed group. It's no great surprise is it? Like I said, you wouldn't care less if it wasn't a cause you cared about, but the police have to apply the law equally, and without favour no? Everyone's like oooh mmmy godd...they arrested people. Well, yes, they did. And that's cos they showed support for an illegal group. Not a big surprise is it?!

I doubt most of the public do support damaging British military equipment actually, not sure on your figures there.

I know it's a bigger crime on here to disagree with you than to support a proscribed group, but we are allowed to comment on posts! I could say that you didn't need to reply to mine!

I think you’re missing the point. Nobody here is at all surprised all these people got arrested. And those people who did get arrested knew what they were doing and what the consequences would be. Like I said in my previous point, they’re making a point at the absurdity of it all. I’m tempted to join them myself. I mean. How people do they shave to arrest before the law makers realise they’ve completely misjudged this.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Palestine Action

Execute all the protestors

James Wales

Age 14 and a bit

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Execute all the protestors

James Wales

Age 14 and a bit

I take a pretty liberal approach to sentencing and things like prison reform Sludgey. You are probably far more "String em up" than I am.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

I think you’re missing the point. Nobody here is at all surprised all these people got arrested. And those people who did get arrested knew what they were doing and what the consequences would be. Like I said in my previous point, they’re making a point at the absurdity of it all. I’m tempted to join them myself. I mean. How people do they shave to arrest before the law makers realise they’ve completely misjudged this.

Yeah I get it. Some people dont think they should have been proscribed. I understand that. I've said I can see how it's borderline, and I'm sure thats the case for a great many of the groups on that list, most of whom I would wager do not have an active policy of targeting UK military equipment in order to achieve their goal. So whilst I get the controversy, I can also see why they were proscribed tbh. And as Ive said before, if this was a group who some of you didn't believe in doing the same actions (damaging RNLI lifeboats lets say?) you would be calling for severe penalties.

Irrespective, the law applies. You can't support a proscribed group in this country. If you do, you risk arrest and the law doesn't (and absolutely shouldn't) make judgments on when to apply it. I agree that how it's handled matters, and I agree that sentencing matters (in this case violent arrests would be uncalled for and so would long sentences) but the law still applies and I do find it arrogant that some people seem to think it doesn't apply to them. It does. Doesn't matter if you are some middle class greenham common veteran granny from Leamington Spa, a Muslim kid from a council estate or Kevin from Splott. It applies.

Can you imagine how loud the "two tier" calls would have been if nothing had been done? And what that would mean for people showing active support for groups (many of course far more dangerous than Palestine Action).

The reality is they know they may be arrested. They know it would cost police time and money. They know they can (and do) protest whats happening in Palestine in a wide variety of ways, but once the group is proscribed, they cannot show support for it. And that's the long and end of it. Maybe the law is an ass, but be careful what you wish for if you don't think it should be applied in your case, cos there will be others with views you don't like who will be thinking the exact same.

[stevo]

Re: Palestine Action

I don’t think anyone involved here was expecting a two-tier approach from the law. Like I said, they knew what they were doing. It’s the only way to expose the absurdity of the ruling and I’m tempted to get involved myself. How many arrests will it take before they get the message?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

Yeah I get it. Some people dont think they should have been proscribed. I understand that. I've said I can see how it's borderline, and I'm sure thats the case for a great many of the groups on that list, most of whom I would wager do not have an active policy of targeting UK military equipment in order to achieve their goal. So whilst I get the controversy, I can also see why they were proscribed tbh. And as Ive said before, if this was a group who some of you didn't believe in doing the same actions (damaging RNLI lifeboats lets say?) you would be calling for severe penalties.

Irrespective, the law applies. You can't support a proscribed group in this country. If you do, you risk arrest and the law doesn't (and absolutely shouldn't) make judgments on when to apply it. I agree that how it's handled matters, and I agree that sentencing matters (in this case violent arrests would be uncalled for and so would long sentences) but the law still applies and I do find it arrogant that some people seem to think it doesn't apply to them. It does. Doesn't matter if you are some middle class greenham common veteran granny from Leamington Spa, a Muslim kid from a council estate or Kevin from Splott. It applies.

Can you imagine how loud the "two tier" calls would have been if nothing had been done? And what that would mean for people showing active support for groups (many of course far more dangerous than Palestine Action).

The reality is they know they may be arrested. They know it would cost police time and money. They know they can (and do) protest whats happening in Palestine in a wide variety of ways, but once the group is proscribed, they cannot show support for it. And that's the long and end of it. Maybe the law is an ass, but be careful what you wish for if you don't think it should be applied in your case, cos there will be others with views you don't like who will be thinking the exact same.

Reading that, you can only be grateful that those who got stupid and unfair laws changed down the centuries, sometimes paying with their lives for their beliefs, defied the powers that be of their day, rather than adapt your rather moveable acceptance of obeying the law of the land, All you've done for nearly a day now is talk to us as if we're too dense to understand the only point you keep on making to justify your opinion - everyone understands what you're saying, it's not as if it will all suddenly click into place and we'll say "James Wales was right you know".

Also, what was this "targetting" of UK Military equipment you talk about? They spray painted it, does spray painting stop modern and sophisticated weaponry working? Does it destroy it? How does spray painting anything warrant an accusation of terrorism and proscribing of the organisation responsible?