Palestine Action

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

The government will appeal. Hopefully they will be humiliated again. The government has enabled genocide and (after meetings with Israeli lobbying groups, Elbit Systems and the Israeli embassy - possibly also responding to Trump who called PA 'terrorists' after they spray painted one of his Scottish golf courses) and silenced and criminalised opponents of genocide.

There is a right side of history and a wrong side!

In the Filton case 'no verdict' was returned against three of the defendants on a couple of charges. There may be another trial - there may not. But if you read the detailed coverage of the trial it is clear that the prosecution case was shredded - confused, contradictory and often dishonest.

The security guards piled in with sledgehammers and whips (!); the police piled in with tasers and PAVA spray and initiated the violence. The protestors were trying to destroy equipment and arms (Elbit Systems the biggest Israeli arms manufacturer) and brought in tools to do that. They had already been attacked when PC Kate Evans was slightly injured in the confusion. The injury turned out to be far less serious than originally claimed and reported in the UK press! The prosecution (AKA the government) tried to portray the protestors as setting out to inflict injury on others but the jury clearly decided that was made up nonsense.

This is worthy of George Orwell.

You can see with your own eyes a group of people who who broke into a factory and a man swings a fkn sledgehammer into a female police officers back, and you dismiss it. What the hell is wrong with you?

Palestine Action achieved nothing so don't deserve any credit either. Anyone with half a brain (not a requirement for P.A membership clearly) knew a prerequisite of any peace was a release of hostages, something that was well down the list of P.As rhetoric.

I am genuinely surprised to read what you wrote here dismissing the violence tbh, and that's what worries me about groups like this.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Palestine Action

This is worthy of George Orwell.

You can see with your own eyes a group of people who who broke into a factory and a man swings a fkn sledgehammer into a female police officers back, and you dismiss it. What the hell is wrong with you?

Palestine Action achieved nothing so don't deserve any credit either. Anyone with half a brain (not a requirement for P.A membership clearly) knew a prerequisite of any peace was a release of hostages, something that was well down the list of P.As rhetoric.

I am genuinely surprised to read what you wrote here dismissing the violence tbh, and that's what worries me about groups like this.

I think he was being satirical!

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

This is worthy of George Orwell.

You can see with your own eyes a group of people who who broke into a factory and a man swings a fkn sledgehammer into a female police officers back, and you dismiss it. What the hell is wrong with you?

Palestine Action achieved nothing so don't deserve any credit either. Anyone with half a brain (not a requirement for P.A membership clearly) knew a prerequisite of any peace was a release of hostages, something that was well down the list of P.As rhetoric.

I am genuinely surprised to read what you wrote here dismissing the violence tbh, and that's what worries me about groups like this.

However I am not surprised at all by your take on the Filton 24/6 trial and the Palestine Action proscription appeal. at the High Court.

Have you read any of the detailed coverage of the Filton trial?

I do not dismiss the violence at all. A protestor injured a police officer. The police and security gusrds attacked the protesters. The jury heard and deliberated on the evidence and reached their verdict.

There may be another trial on the ‘no verdict’ charges. Presumably if that happens the prosecution will re-think their exagerated claims.

I am surprised the criminal damage charges were throw n out - but not the verdict in general. It was a good day for British justice.

Your characterisation of anti genocide protestors, the so called ‘peace deal’ and the drivers for the Gaza genocide are all seriously warped!

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

However I am not surprised at all by your take on the Filton 24/6 trial and the Palestine Action proscription appeal. at the High Court.

Have you read any of the detailed coverage of the Filton trial?

I do not dismiss the violence at all. A protestor injured a police officer. The police and security gusrds attacked the protesters. The jury heard and deliberated on the evidence and reached their verdict.

There may be another trial on the ‘no verdict’ charges. Presumably if that happens the prosecution will re-think their exagerated claims.

I am surprised the criminal damage charges were throw n out - but not the verdict in general. It was a good day for British justice.

Your characterisation of anti genocide protestors, the so called ‘peace deal’ and the drivers for the Gaza genocide are all seriously warped!

Sorry, I'm not taking lessons in "seriously warped" from the guy who is okay with breaking into places, violently attacking people and downplaying sledgehammers in the back of the police

[stevo]

Re: Palestine Action

Sorry, I'm not taking lessons in "seriously warped" from the guy who is okay with breaking into places, violently attacking people and downplaying sledgehammers in the back of the police

Is that your definition of terrorism?

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

Sorry, I'm not taking lessons in "seriously warped" from the guy who is okay with breaking into places, violently attacking people and downplaying sledgehammers in the back of the police

I’m not sure why we bother with juries weighing the evidence.

It would be quicker and cheaper to just give you a call and let you decide what happened and why.

At least we will be able to focus on the ‘real bad guys’ and give the war criminals, mass murderers and their apologists a day off? l

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Is that your definition of terrorism?

Violence or threat of violence in the pursuit of political or religious goals, or thereabouts. Something like that. You?

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

I’m not sure why we bother with juries weighing the evidence.

It would be quicker and cheaper to just give you a call and let you decide what happened and why.

At least we will be able to focus on the ‘real bad guys’ and give the war criminals, mass murderers and their apologists a day off? l

I'm pretty certain that you will have questioned many legal decisions in your time Jon, without considering an offer to take over the justice system!

No, my gripe is more with you labelling a violent break in and a clear sledgehammer being slammed into a female police officers back as "They had already been attacked when PC Kate Evans was slightly injured in the confusion" I think that's a pretty extreme take.

Some serious kool-aid being swallowed with some of the pro-palestine lot.

[stevo]

Re: Palestine Action

Violence or threat of violence in the pursuit of political or religious goals, or thereabouts. Something like that. You?

At what scale though?

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

https://realmedia.press/filton-index/

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DUeM2J8gDL3/?hl=en

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3199921230171729

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Heres some slightly longer videos less edited.

https://youtu.be/23i7XOgyQDs?si=6EptSokFdq1CWoNo

At the start you can clearly see them ramming the doors. They then chase the security out whilst swinging sledgehammers. There are then lots of scuffles, at three minutes when a profoundly entitled person who has been involved in a violent break in is being arrested you can very clearly see a man swings a sledgehammer into the back of a female police officer whilst back up is called for as they clearly state they've been attacked.

I'm sorry, it's disgusting. And the guy who hit the woman in the back is walking free.

All for a political cause that we know is deadly on the fringes.

If that isn't terrorism I don't know what is and shame on anyone who supports those actions.

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

Yes, that is one of the bodycam videos that the jury watched.

And drew their own conclusions.

What do you mean by ‘All for a political cause that we know is deadly on the fringes’?

70,000 people have not been killed (by the weapons Elbit Systems produce) ‘on the fringes’.

As to the events at Filton - that is not ‘terrorism’. It is at most criminal damage and possibly ABH. They were all charged on grounds that did not rely on a manufactured case of ‘terrorism’ and after a thorough examination of the evidence the jury either acquited or failed to reach a verdict.

Most of the spin on the event fed to the press in the immediate aftermath was demolished in the trial. The injury to the police officer is bad - but although the press claimed she was crippled she walked into A&E and was back in work after a few months. There may be a retrial on that and some of the other charges that the jury failed to reach a decision on.

As I have said before I do not support Palestine Action (still the possibility of up to 14 years in gaol for those that do) and the damage to material used in the production of weapons used in a genocide carries risks of long sentences for those that take part. But I’m not going to vilify people who take action against a genocide whilst enabling those who carry it out - which seems to be the position of the UK government and those that echo their talking points.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Yes, that is one of the bodycam videos that the jury watched.

And drew their own conclusions.

What do you mean by ‘All for a political cause that we know is deadly on the fringes’?

70,000 people have not been killed (by the weapons Elbit Systems produce) ‘on the fringes’.

As to the events at Filton - that is not ‘terrorism’. It is at most criminal damage and possibly ABH. They were all charged on grounds that did not rely on a manufactured case of ‘terrorism’ and after a thorough examination of the evidence the jury either acquited or failed to reach a verdict.

Most of the spin on the event fed to the press in the immediate aftermath was demolished in the trial. The injury to the police officer is bad - but although the press claimed she was crippled she walked into A&E and was back in work after a few months. There may be a retrial on that and some of the other charges that the jury failed to reach a decision on.

As I have said before I do not support Palestine Action (still the possibility of up to 14 years in gaol for those that do) and the damage to material used in the production of weapons used in a genocide carries risks of long sentences for those that take part. But I’m not going to vilify people who take action against a genocide whilst enabling those who carry it out - which seems to be the position of the UK government and those that echo their talking points.

Yeah everyone has a cause, often an honourable one and one many of us will agree with. That's not what distinguishes these groups, what distinguishes them is their willingness to use violence and terror to achieve them. The security and police would genuinely have feared for their lives here given what others have done for the wider cause and the police officer did not deserve a sledgehammer in the back from someone just for doing her job. I am amazed they got off and it does raise serious questions and you did seem pretty dismissive of it. I know you support the cause and have sympathy with that, but not the aims.

Anyway, at great cost, the judicial system will have to run it's course on this one I guess, but seeing video images of people breaking in and hitting the police with sledgehammers and walking free - sorry, that seems a total injustice and something is wrong when extremists get away with that.

Like a well swung sledgehammer we'll end up going around in circles here though Jon, so I've said what needed saying and wish you a lovely weekend 👍

[Heathblue]

Re: Palestine Action

Yeah everyone has a cause, often an honourable one and one many of us will agree with. That's not what distinguishes these groups, what distinguishes them is their willingness to use violence and terror to achieve them. The security and police would genuinely have feared for their lives here given what others have done for the wider cause and the police officer did not deserve a sledgehammer in the back from someone just for doing her job. I am amazed they got off and it does raise serious questions and you did seem pretty dismissive of it. I know you support the cause and have sympathy with that, but not the aims.

Anyway, at great cost, the judicial system will have to run it's course on this one I guess, but seeing video images of people breaking in and hitting the police with sledgehammers and walking free - sorry, that seems a total injustice and something is wrong when extremists get away with that.

Like a well swung sledgehammer we'll end up going around in circles here though Jon, so I've said what needed saying and wish you a lovely weekend 👍

I dont think i know anybody who isn't sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, who wouldn't be? but the current day protester is far removed from the greenham common types of a few decades ago, often a little rowdy but without the level of violence of the current rent a mob paid disrupters, these violent types do nothing IMO to help the cause. I would guess that the 1980's women at GC were far more sincere to their cause than this lot at the moment who switch flag at ease depending on the current BBC news cycle, it was a long time ago and i cannot be arsed to google it so maybe they were violent and i just dont remember.

[Tuerto]

Re: Palestine Action

I dont think i know anybody who isn't sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, who wouldn't be? but the current day protester is far removed from the greenham common types of a few decades ago, often a little rowdy but without the level of violence of the current rent a mob paid disrupters, these violent types do nothing IMO to help the cause. I would guess that the 1980's women at GC were far more sincere to their cause than this lot at the moment who switch flag at ease depending on the current BBC news cycle, it was a long time ago and i cannot be arsed to google it so maybe they were violent and i just dont remember.

I'm guessing you've forgotten the poll tax riots or the anti demos against the National Front, British Movement etc of the 70's and 80's?