Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

you are absolutely spot on here Sludge. The UK is predominantly centre right, and hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 50 years. Some people on the left are so deluded. It is better to have a centre left in strength than a weak left wing.

I will never vote Conservative

I will vote for an electable left of centre party that has a social policy background on issues like transport , the NHS

In Wales we have a strong Labour vote that can deliver some sort of social conscience to the modern age

So I will continue to vote for it even though it needs sharpening up

But UK wide its burnt beyond recognition

And in 20 years I can see either the tories still in power or a UK wide left of centre alternative

The opposition vote to the tories used to be propped up by Scottish and Welsh Labour, the Northern towns and inner city London

Now thats up for grabs

I can and hope Welsh Labour survives and a social alliance party brings everyone together in England who doesn't vote tory and they can team up

My opinion is if this doesn't happen the country will be forever tory

And fringe meetings and tony benn t shirts will gather dust

[life on mars]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

you are absolutely spot on here Sludge. The UK is predominantly centre right, and hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 50 years. Some people on the left are so deluded. It is better to have a centre left in strength than a weak left wing.

That is a very important point look at the last eleven elections for Labour and you will only find 3 wins under the name of Blair who drove the party to the middle ground and won 3 time one a huge landslide , I know it doesn't fit nicely with some Labour voters I wonder how big the majority would have been in December with Boris v Blair clash or Boris v David Miliband .

Wales need to be careful though success yes, however Tories did gain more seats , if they apply the tactics they have up in NE England it could change

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Party in government always ends up stealing best ideas of the opposition. Economically, Boris' 2019 manifesto was closer to Ed Milliband in 2010's than it was David Cameron/George Osbourne.

Does that mean UK is centre-left just 10 years too late for Labour to win votes?

[life on mars]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Labour reshuffle today apparently according to Sky News

that went so well

[surge]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

....

They've combined that with a creeping authoritarian, regressive culture which attacks opposition in any form in a way that would make Trump or Orban (Hungary) proud.

I had a conversation yesterday with a conservative voter (small c) who said they'd never vote Tory again because of what they're currently doing economically and culturally. We're not hearing that yet because i) how popular this political position is (economically centre-left, culturally right, authoritarian) and ii) Tories are still a party friendly to billionaire's.

Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread/how long it can go on for before being moved to politics section. I will quietly add that the Queen's Speech today has some people concerned based on what I've said above and leave it at that.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I keep on waiting to see something from people living in areas like Hartlepool which can logically explain why they are now voting in large numbers for a party which their parents and grandparents would never have trusted and I've not seen anything yet which satisfactorily explains it. However, one thing which is emerging is that people in Hartlepool, and many other towns like it, no longer feel the Labour party represents them and this is a situation which, frankly, the party should be ashamed of.

Some young voters in Hartlepool were interviewed on TV recently. As you say, they admitted that their parents/grandparents were horrified that they could even contemplate voting Conservative. The problem is that the older generation are stuck in a 1980's Maggie Thatcher time-warp (closure of the mines etc) about which young people have no direct knowledge. One also mentioned
corruption amongst local Labour councillors (heaven forbid, surely not) as a reason for turning her back on the Labour party. Maybe these young people do not seem themselves as the old traditional working class people anymore and therefore the Labour party is irrelevant to them?

[Tuerto]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Some young voters in Hartlepool were interviewed on TV recently. As you say, they admitted that their parents/grandparents were horrified that they could even contemplate voting Conservative. The problem is that the older generation are stuck in a 1980's Maggie Thatcher time-warp (closure of the mines etc) about which young people have no direct knowledge. One also mentioned
corruption amongst local Labour councillors (heaven forbid, surely not) as a reason for turning her back on the Labour party. Maybe these young people do not seem themselves as the old traditional working class people anymore and therefore the Labour party is irrelevant to them?

Good point, The Tories sold off or closed the industries and manufacturing bases that were the life blood of places like Hartlepool. Diluted workers rights and kicked services into touch. These poor youngsters don't even know what it is to be working class, even though they are. Even that has been stripped away from them, And Labour are just as responsible in my book.

[blue matt]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Good point, The Tories sold off or closed the industries and manufacturing bases that were the life blood of places like Hartlepool. Diluted workers rights and kicked services into touch. These poor youngsters don't even know what it is to be working class, even though they are. Even that has been stripped away from them, And Labour are just as responsible in my book.

the thing is, Young people do not want to be working class, they aspire to better themselves, which is exactly what the Tories tap into

[life on mars]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

the thing is, Young people do not want to be working class, they aspire to better themselves, which is exactly what the Tories tap into

The real cloth capped traditional down trodden working class have gone.

The issue for me is they look at Labour and see a metropolitan woke elite party and it doesn't tick their box .

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

you are absolutely spot on here Sludge. The UK is predominantly centre right, and hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 50 years. Some people on the left are so deluded. It is better to have a centre left in strength than a weak left wing.

Or better still to introduce a political system which allows politicians to be themselves, display their values to the electorate and gain votes based on that position rather than what we have now. FPTP is so anti-democratic that it isn't even funny to watch anymore. I would take the repugnant prospect of a handful of mental BNP types included in a truly representative parliament over different shades of lying that we have now.

Starmer is getting hammered for doing what has won the Tories the last 2 elections - no policy detail, just vague statements. It's genius spin from the Tories (as usual, adopted readily by a friendly press and pushed down every orifice). Labour now have to risk pissing people off by saying what they will do.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

the thing is, Young people do not want to be working class, they aspire to better themselves, which is exactly what the Tories tap into

Except young people overwhelmingly vote for anybody other than the Tories.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Or better still to introduce a political system which allows politicians to be themselves, display their values to the electorate and gain votes based on that position rather than what we have now. FPTP is so anti-democratic that it isn't even funny to watch anymore. I would take the repugnant prospect of a handful of mental BNP types included in a truly representative parliament over different shades of lying that we have now.

Starmer is getting hammered for doing what has won the Tories the last 2 elections - no policy detail, just vague statements. It's genius spin from the Tories (as usual, adopted readily by a friendly press and pushed down every orifice). Labour now have to risk pissing people off by saying what they will do.

Clegg hungry for power got his flimsy but better than nothing alternative vote from Cameron but the public were not interested , turnout was crap and they voted to keep fptp

The joy of government is that the people are stupid

[goats]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Except young people overwhelmingly vote for anybody other than the Tories.

And then switch by their 40’s or 50’s by the look of it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Except young people overwhelmingly vote for anybody other than the Tories.

sad to see that less than 50 percent of 16 and 17 year olds registered to vote

How many actually voted I don't know 😕

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

And then switch by their 40’s or 50’s by the look of it

watch it