This flight to Rwanda

[CopenhagenBlue]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

I thought she did well in highlighting the hypocrisy and lack of ideas from the other side tbh. It was a lot of grandstanding.

So we just go with the first disgraceful idea that was tabled, due to there not being a conclusive solution on a hugely complex issue?

Denmark is closely watching these developments, as the Social Democratic party (they pose as left of center, but in reality are closer to the Tories when it comes to most things these days) we have in government is also planning on doing the exact same thing. They have the same deals set up with Rwanda...

It's a disgrace. And no I don't have the solution to the worlds migration problems, but I do know that putting people on places to Rwanda is not a solution.

[life on mars]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

I'm not a fan of Yvette Cooper, but she is one hell of an effective parliamentary speaker.

This is a complete take down of Priti Patel and the Rwanda scheme.

I am a big fan of the lady vote for her in a flash as would a lot of floating centralists voters so much better than Raynor .

I think she is the leader Labour need now and should have chosen way back and not marginalised along with a lot of decent MP's via the looney left era just before Sir Tory Kier came in , yes she spoke very well however offered no other real solution and Patel reply was a strong one and resonates with a lot of Labour voters like it or not .?? .

We all know this is clever politics as is the NI protocols , trans issues , re entry to single currency ,supporting the RMT it all resonates , and while Labour sits on their hands worried what others might think 'up north' as we near the next election It gets worse they should be miles ahead of the Tories in the polls ( look back at Blairs poll lead before his election )

Labour are scared to say what they want to really say because there is strong feeling around immigration as it does impact on peoples lives mainly in poorer areas who are already struggling with housing , health etc , a lot of people would never see that impact based on where they live its great lawyers , church leaders , Prince Charles stand up for them but they wont see this in thier area ( in fact they all have enough land , recourse and money between them to house and feed every immigrant ) . NIMBY

Calling all critics and name callers of Patel can someone please show me another workable plan to look after 30k a year migrants coming in closely followed by their relatives years after that .

It Is so easy to say this is wrong or injustice , of course it is .

The irony form me is they crossing 7 safe European borders in Europe to get to the channel why ??

EEC has a huge area massive spending powers etc etc and we are an island that is too generous by far hence the migration .

Ask yourself why all this happen and why the French did not accept the offer from Patel to fund and put on French shores UK agencies .

Perhaps this comment from the Mayor of Calais helps :

""Calais migrants ‘willing to die’ to come to Britain, says French port’s mayor

Natacha Bouchart claims UK has more favourable benefits regime than France, at Commons home affairs meeting

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/28/calais-migrants-willing-to-die-britain-french-mayor-natacha-bouchart-uk-benefits-france

All stinks of NIMBY'S

[Tito Fuente]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

I thought she did well in highlighting the hypocrisy and lack of ideas from the other side tbh. It was a lot of grandstanding.

I've got a great idea. Send them all to Iceland. It's closer so we'll save on fuel and it's an island so they will have trouble getting back to the UK shores again.

Also, I believe their human rights record is slightly better than Rwanda's but it'll be so cold that it would be a massive culture shock to the majority of people fleeing from hotter climates.

That could be a deterrent, yeah?

Please don't accuse me of not having come up with any solutions in future as this is clearly a much better idea than the Rwanda policy.

I've just checked and everyone else agrees with me.

I assume you will now allow people to criticise Priti Patel and the government's lack of humanity without accusing us of not coming up with other ideas.

Thanks James. Appreciate it.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

So we just go with the first disgraceful idea that was tabled, due to there not being a conclusive solution on a hugely complex issue?

Denmark is closely watching these developments, as the Social Democratic party (they pose as left of center, but in reality are closer to the Tories when it comes to most things these days) we have in government is also planning on doing the exact same thing. They have the same deals set up with Rwanda...

It's a disgrace. And no I don't have the solution to the worlds migration problems, but I do know that putting people on places to Rwanda is not a solution.

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

I've got a great idea. Send them all to Iceland. It's closer so we'll save on fuel and it's an island so they will have trouble getting back to the UK shores again.

Also, I believe their human rights record is slightly better than Rwanda's but it'll be so cold that it would be a massive culture shock to the majority of people fleeing from hotter climates.

That could be a deterrent, yeah?

Please don't accuse me of not having come up with any solutions in future as this is clearly a much better idea than the Rwanda policy.

I've just checked and everyone else agrees with me.

I assume you will now allow people to criticise Priti Patel and the government's lack of humanity without accusing us of not coming up with other ideas.

Thanks James. Appreciate it.

You can do what you want. It's just your argument would be stronger if you had an alternative.

What about your lack of humanity at allowing richer migrants to jump the queue and pay criminal gangs to make the crossing from a safe country? Let alone the costs involved when the country is struggling as it is.

Where is your humanity?

[lardy]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

Do you think many in Calais know about it? I doubt it.

I'd say it's more of a communication to groups of voters in the UK than potential asylum seekers abroad

[Tito Fuente]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

You can do what you want. It's just your argument would be stronger if you had an alternative.

What about your lack of humanity at allowing richer migrants to jump the queue and pay criminal gangs to make the crossing from a safe country? Let alone the costs involved when the country is struggling as it is.

Where is your humanity?

I'm allowing it now, am I?

[Rjk]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

you don't think it's disgraceful to send people, who you have no idea whether they are ligitimate asylum seekers or not, to a country with a terrible human rights record and pay their oppressive leaders money to do so thereby propping up their oppressive regime?

there is NO indication that this will deter anyone from making the journey. the Home office have done no analysis as to what the numbers will be following this policy.
a refugee fleeing oppression in some far flung country is not going to have a detailed knowledge of our immigration policies, and it's not as though the criminal gangs that will offer to take them to the UK are going to tell them that there's a small chance they'll be flown to Rwanda, or even how dangerous the journey would be.

[CopenhagenBlue]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

The idea isn't to send lots of people to Rwanda it's that it acts as a deterrent so that thousands of people don't jump the asylum queue by paying criminals thousands of pounds to cross the channel.

I don't see what's disgraceful about it. I think it's disgraceful to not have any tabled solutions to the problem tbh

Disgraceful not having concrete solutions to hugely complex issues? Well lets start at not outsourcing things we don't like and don't want to deal with to other countries (with very recent histories of genocide amongst other problems). Then we can start the debate on where to go from here. Making the world a more even place economically is the ultimate goal, but that essentially means people like ourselves accepting to take a hit on our own quality of life/finances to some degree, at least in the short term. And let's face it, most people are not willing to do that, certainly no Tory would anyway.

You think these flights are a deterrent? You are having a laugh. Say a person came from Libya as an example. If the two insanely dangerous sea crossings on terribly inadequate, overcrowded boats, and who knows what else they face in between didn't stop these people coming, nothing will.

Right now as things stand, I would probably guess that there is no solution to stopping migrants coming to wealthy countries like the UK & Denmark. People want a better life for themselves and their families, and who can blame them. We'd all be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

you don't think it's disgraceful to send people, who you have no idea whether they are ligitimate asylum seekers or not, to a country with a terrible human rights record and pay their oppressive leaders money to do so thereby propping up their oppressive regime?

there is NO indication that this will deter anyone from making the journey. the Home office have done no analysis as to what the numbers will be following this policy.
a refugee fleeing oppression in some far flung country is not going to have a detailed knowledge of our immigration policies, and it's not as though the criminal gangs that will offer to take them to the UK are going to tell them that there's a small chance they'll be flown to Rwanda, or even how dangerous the journey would be.

I think the policy may help to reduce numbers yes, and that it's worth trying.

You seem to think the killer argument is that analysis doesn't show what the impact will be; but analysis never does, and the situation is pretty unique. You also want to place all faith in a theoretical analysis and none in a practical one. My understanding is that this has made a real difference in similar migration patterns to Australia, no?

Moreover, there remains a total lack of appreciation for the issue or a desire to solve it.

Again, all we've had is:

Let them apply from France (which no doubt France don't want, and wouldnt stop boats anyway)
and
Sanctimony and insults at anyone who thinks this is worth trying.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Disgraceful not having concrete solutions to hugely complex issues? Well lets start at not outsourcing things we don't like and don't want to deal with to other countries (with very recent histories of genocide amongst other problems). Then we can start the debate on where to go from here. Making the world a more even place economically is the ultimate goal, but that essentially means people like ourselves accepting to take a hit on our own quality of life/finances to some degree, at least in the short term. And let's face it, most people are not willing to do that, certainly no Tory would anyway.

You think these flights are a deterrent? You are having a laugh. Say a person came from Libya as an example. If the two insanely dangerous sea crossings on terribly inadequate, overcrowded boats, and who knows what else they face in between didn't stop these people coming, nothing will.

Right now as things stand, I would probably guess that there is no solution to stopping migrants coming to wealthy countries like the UK & Denmark. People want a better life for themselves and their families, and who can blame them. We'd all be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.

Of course, it's not difficult to understand. So should the UK and Denmark take in whomever wants to live here? And those that don't should what? What should we do? You are seemingly arguing that literally everyone who comes here should be allowed to stay, or aren't you? And how would you deport people who do arrive illegally?

[CopenhagenBlue]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Those Visit Rwanda sponsorships on the Arsenal shirts in recent seasons might be encouraging more to come to the UK, if they now think they can get a free flight transfer to Kigali.

[CopenhagenBlue]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Of course, it's not difficult to understand. So should the UK and Denmark take in whomever wants to live here? And those that don't should what? What should we do? You are seemingly arguing that literally everyone who comes here should be allowed to stay, or aren't you? And how would you deport people who do arrive illegally?

Denmark miraculously found space for thousands of Ukrainians recently, whilst at the same time wants to deport migrants from the Middle East/Africa etc... there was even jobs for most of them... So yes, take them all in. The vast majority want to work, and will contribute.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Denmark miraculously found space for thousands of Ukrainians recently, whilst at the same time wants to deport migrants from the Middle East/Africa etc... there was even jobs for most of them... So yes, take them all in. The vast majority want to work, and will contribute.

Take everyone in? Jeez, okay.

[Lither_1927]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

San Marino, Japan, Spain...

You're just naming countries that seem nice from a holiday brochure now.
Japan is an ethno state. A Low crime, high trust society, Because they reject mass immigration, their house prices haven't risen much since 1997. Enabling the youth a chance to buy a home. Their government puts the native population first. Our government are selling us out. You have to ask yourself, why is mass immigration happening....who is doing it? And Why...

Spain has immigrant sink estates, they've suffered fatal terrorist attacks from muslim terrorists. And don't forget it's still very early in Spain's mass immigration experiment. It will fragment and decay. Also their third most most popular political party (vox)is "far right" and it's popularity is still growing.

San Marino seems like an ethno state to me.