Chaos in Government

[Feedback]

Re: Chaos in Government

Lifelong Labour voters who were taken in by Johnson, Farage and the Murdoch press. It was an exercise whereby huge swathes of the country were altered into Manchurian Candidates. The press even managed to distort the image of Jeremy Corbyn into a bogeyman contrary to the interest of the general populace. An amazing trick of mass brainwashing.

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Chaos in Government

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

But if a life-long tory voter switches to labour is he taken in or had he seen the light? I think the answer to that from some may show just a tad of bias.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Chaos in Government

undoubtedly we would have seen less austerity, but whether that impacts the economy overall is debatable. All you are doing is shifting who has the money to spend.

In respect of your latter point, whilst at a party level I would agree, I think its a bit more complicated vis a vis the electorate. The collapse of the red wall across the north of England is down to Brexit. Lifelong Labour voters switching party alignment simply because they did not really understand what Labour's position was.

I’m not arguing either from a party political point of view. Johnson won in 2019 with a promise of more Government spending, so there was a recognition at that time that the era of austerity had to end - opposition parties had been advocating this for a few years before that and I think it’s reasonable to believe that, for better or worse, the economic condition of the country would have pretty different if, say, a Labour/Lib Dem coalition had been in power from 2015.

As for Brexit, I agree that the bandwagon for some sort of realignment of our relationship with the EU might have become hard to resist if UKIP had been able to repeat their results of around a decade ago, but I think a non Conservative Government would have pursued a negotiated compromise as opposed to a yes/no vote.

[Feedback]

Re: Chaos in Government

But if a life-long tory voter switches to labour is he taken in or had he seen the light? I think the answer to that from some may show just a tad of bias.

Maybe just maybe for this one occasion the electorate prefer to vote for the party that has clarity over what they consider their most pressing issue.

Once Brexit is done and dusted, I'm pretty sure we'll see the red wall reappear.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Chaos in Government

Yes thought not!

So you vote for what suits you best!

Are you a Conservative Student at UWIC or something ?

Do you think everyone with money votes tory ?

[Dorcus]

Re: Chaos in Government

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

I totally disagree and you are very arrogant to suggest so. I've never mentioned I wish to be objective. I've never witnessed any objectivity in your dire views.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Chaos in Government

You are rather arrogant to suggest people only vote for the Tories because they are taken in through brain washing. You're not as objective as you like to think you are.

Most vote tory because they say they'll lower taxes for higher earners and be carefull with the money, better for business and the economy.

Most vote Labour because they say they will tax the wealthy more, increase benefits and wages for the low paid and public industries and spend more on public services, but they can never say where the money is going to come from.

People voted New Labour because they said they would do most of both and because Tony was slick.

Once in they do what they can get away with!

[Feedback]

Re: Chaos in Government

I’m not arguing either from a party political point of view. Johnson won in 2019 with a promise of more Government spending, so there was a recognition at that time that the era of austerity had to end - opposition parties have been advocating that for a few years before that and I think it’s reasonable to believe that, for better or worse, the economic condition of the country would have pretty different if, say, a Labour/Lib Dem coalition had been in power from 2015.

As for Brexit, I agree that the bandwagon for some sort of realignment of our relationship with the EU might have become hard to resist if UKIP had been able to repeat their results of around a decade ago, but I think a non Conservative Government would have pursued a negotiated compromise as opposed to a yes/no vote.

Your last point is one of the great what ifs. The more I look back, I am pretty sure if Blair allowed the referendum in the late 90s, it would have been a resounding yes and today's political climate would have been much different.

[Feedback]

Re: Chaos in Government

I totally disagree and you are very arrogant to suggest so. I've never mentioned I wish to be objective. I've never witnessed any objectivity in your dire views.

You're not getting a bite from me, go fishing somewhere else

[xsnaggle]

Re: Chaos in Government

I disagree. Labours policy was the Brexit decision was made by the electorate so let the electorate decide on what form of Brexit they want via a referendum.

That would mean people having to vote between the many different types of Brexit, which is rather out of line with the purpose of referendums, but hey so what? Just change the rules. And when you have the answer to that question have another referendum so anyone who voted for a losing choice in the first vote could then vote yes or no to the one that won the first vote. can say yes or no to the winner.
Then have another one to check if the answer you got for the first one was right. ( In other words was it the answer you wanted).
Then after you have negotiated a new treaty with the EU have a referendum so the people can vote on what they are actually going to get.
(And keep having them until you (The EU) get the answer they want, like they said they would keep doing with Eire when the population rejected the Euro.)

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Chaos in Government

the only thing died is Corbyns and Boris career.

No not dyed in the wool tory, but Labour and the liberals or whatever they are, were responsible for trying to stop it and took attention away from running the Country to trying to battle for Brexit.

They were trying to stop parliament every week?

Of course you are a raving tory 🙄

Embarrassing now

[Dorcus]

Re: Chaos in Government

Most vote tory because they say they'll lower taxes for higher earners and be carefull with the money, better for business and the economy.

Most vote Labour because they say they will tax the wealthy more, increase benefits and wages for the low paid and public industries and spend more on public services, but they can never say where the money is going to come from.

People voted New Labour because they sad they would do most of both and because Tony was slick.

Once in they do what they can get away with.

They usually do say where the money is coming from but an awful lot of people stick their fingers in their ears.

[Feedback]

Re: Chaos in Government

Most vote tory because they say they'll lower taxes for higher earners and be carefull with the money, better for business and the economy.

Most vote Labour because they say they will tax the wealthy more, increase benefits and wages for the low paid and public industries and spend more on public services, but they can never say where the money is going to come from.

People voted New Labour because they sad they would do most of both and because Tony was slick.

Once in they do what they can get away with.

Given the incumbent government has collected more in taxes than any government previously, in both real terms and as a percentage of national income, we can put to bed the myth the Tories are the party of low taxation.

And to be clear, I am referring to normal times, and not during any war or just after.

[Feedback]

Re: Chaos in Government

That would mean people having to vote between the many different types of Brexit, which is rather out of line with the purpose of referendums, but hey so what? Just change the rules. And when you have the answer to that question have another referendum so anyone who voted for a losing choice in the first vote could then vote yes or no to the one that won the first vote. can say yes or no to the winner.
Then have another one to check if the answer you got for the first one was right. ( In other words was it the answer you wanted).
Then after you have negotiated a new treaty with the EU have a referendum so the people can vote on what they are actually going to get.
(And keep having them until you (The EU) get the answer they want, like they said they would keep doing with Eire when the population rejected the Euro.)

I'm not saying Labour's policy was correct, what I am saying it is a falsehood to state Labour were not clear on what their policy was.

[Dorcus]

Re: Chaos in Government

You're not getting a bite from me, go fishing somewhere else

I'm not an angler 😲