Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

[/B]

The English ( UK) Government's actions related to Covid cover 80% approx of the UK population. Wales has a very porous 120 mile long border with England, so whatever England decides has a major effect on the Welsh population. On the big issues we are united UK wide....Hands..Face..Space..Vaccinations..the rest is tinkering around the edges, and being used by Wales and Scotland in particular to make political points.

As I said in the previous post, from today England allows outdoor meetings of groups up to 30 in number. In Wales we allow it for groups up to 50. It's not logical that 50 can meet in Chepstow but only 30 a few miles away in Lydney.
As you know I go camping a lot. As recently as last week I could go to any campsite in England and use the communal toilets. In Wales it was not allowed. If you didn't have on board facilities in you camper van, tough luck. These sorts of differences have a big impact on people but defy logic when it comes to protecting the UK from Covid.
More confusing I could go to a pub in Wales and use the communal toilets, same as England....but not at campsites.

For the Welsh and English quangos it's been more about being different. Whenever the Government has introduced rules on numbers of people mixing, whether inside or outside, the Welsh & Scottish have come up with different numbers and scenarios. It's all supposed to be based on the same science /logic, yet surprise surprise, every single rule change has been implemented differently across the UK.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

[/B]

The English ( UK) Government's actions related to Covid cover 80% approx of the UK population. Wales has a very porous 120 mile long border with England, so whatever England decides has a major effect on the Welsh population. On the big issues we are united UK wide....Hands..Face..Space..Vaccinations..the rest is tinkering around the edges, and being used by Wales and Scotland in particular to make political points.

As I said in the previous post, from today England allows outdoor meetings of groups up to 30 in number. In Wales we allow it for groups up to 50. It's not logical that 50 can meet in Chepstow but only 30 a few miles away in Lydney.
As you know I go camping a lot. As recently as last week I could go to any campsite in England and use the communal toilets. In Wales it was not allowed. If you didn't have on board facilities in you camper van, tough luck. These sorts of differences have a big impact on people but defy logic when it comes to protecting the UK from Covid.
More confusing I could go to a pub in Wales and use the communal toilets, same as England....but not at campsites.

None of which alters the basic facts of what I posted. We’re talking about four countries and four different Governments, three of which have tended to follow a more cautious path than the other one and yet it is them who are playing by “different rules” - doesn’t that seem illogical?

To represent the last year and more as being one long example of the Uk/English Government making decisions and then the Welsh/Scottish counterparts doing the opposite just to be contrary is just wrong when you consider how many times the UK Government delayed making inevitable decisions long since taken by Wales and Scotland.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

None of which alters the basic facts of what I posted. We’re talking about four countries and four different Governments, three of which have tended to follow a more cautious path than the other one and yet it is them who are playing by “different rules” - doesn’t that seem illogical?

To represent the last year and more as being one long example of the Uk/English Government making decisions and then the Welsh/Scottish counterparts doing the opposite just to be contrary is just wrong when you consider how many times the UK Government delayed making inevitable decisions long since taken by Wales and Scotland.

I understand the point you are making but cant agree. Yes we are talking about four different Governments in a UK that is compact, barely 600 miles from one end to the other, is totally connected country to country by roads, rail, air and sea. Additionally it has no borders between each country, people barely notice when they travel across country boundaries. ( except for NI)

Devolution has seen individual governments do their own thing over the years but when a 'once in a lifetime' pandemic arrives you would think there would be a uniform approach. In the main areas there is.....Face, Space, Vaccines etc, but after that 'confusion' as each does its own tinkering despite following the same science.

It's confusing, frustrating, and makes it difficult to measure outcomes accurately.

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

There are 4 governments doing their own thing but all of the devolved nations rely heavily on the UK government for most things to do with the pandemic..

The vaccine selection where the UK government selected well by choosing the correct 6 out of the 58 in development is an example. The regional governments had nothing to do with these arrangements.

The detailed advice to various industries, the NHS, education and sports is produced by the UK government and reproduced by the regional governments. All this means is that the UK government's advice is changed slightly. Where there are references to England a minor functionary in the Assembly deletes these and replaces England with Wales. That is how the system works.

In reality the regional governments don't do a lot. Even the vaccine procurement and distribution is organised by the UK government in conjunction with the army, NHS and Kate Bingham's Department.

The regional governments then apply their anything but England analysis to exert their independence. Fair enough but let's not kid ourselves that the regional governments play anything but a secondary role.

The Welsh government it is said is being more cautious than in England. Yes. The WAG did the right thing in locking down last September but ruined it all by making the situation far worse by allowing for a free for all after their initial lockdown. Not exactly cautious in my view. The other changes made have been relatively minor and of little consequence.

Let's face it there is a lot of politicking going on regionally. Several posts congratulate the Welsh government for their role but there is also a case of when things go wrong it's the fault of the Tories and when things go right it's the Labour government doing a better job. That's nonsense.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

Thank you for the link to the Wales on line. Maybe Wales does have the worse outcomes, I don't know, but if so it's likely to be because of demographic factors more than anything else. You make some points about what may or may not have been happening in Wales because of political decisions, what Im saying is that these make marginal differences to the UK overall and in many instances are done just to be different. Tomorrow 30 people can gather in England. In Wales in the same circumstances 50 people can gather. Two governments looking at the same data and coming to very different decisions. Its just daft and confuses people.
Then last week our First minister boasting that we have the lowest rates in UK and the best vaccination rates...just politics and unnecessary and not strictly true.

Regarding the virus, I have a very good understanding of microbiology, having worked in the area for many years, and understand how Covid spreads and it's varying impact on individuals based on degree of exposure, age, individuals overall health and their environment.

So much to say and not enough time...

We don't know whether Boris would have changed his approach if UK was acting as one but it's likely that i) England would have loudest voice as majority of population lives there and ii) if Wales had more closely followed England's approach throughout Wales would have been in a worse position, as would have Scotland, based on different demographics of population.

There have been petty differences created which don't make sense (different take on what counts as a young person between Scotland and Wales, now crowds outside between Wales and England as you've pointed out in your post); and opportunities missed (we're now waiting for 4 weeks to be able to use the English NHS app for vaccine passports, stronger action after fire-break could have been taken); but also reasons to be happy a different approach was taken (children and outdoor activity recognised as being safer earlier in Scotland, a lower peak in Wales and Scotland during winter despite different demographics); and unhappy when each government acted together (not testing those going into care homes).

Drakeford and Sturgeon have been vocal about wanting a one UK approach but perhaps that's wanting a one UK approach and closer to what they've seen as being needed rather than what Boris has. Stating that you want one UK approach leads onto some big questions about who gets and who misses out on what they want and that follow up is rarely put to those calling for said one approach.

Regarding virus, maybe we're saying same thing from different angles. If who, what, where you are changes degree of exposure and impact on you if you catch it then, to me, the virus does care about those things even if it doesn't know it.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

There are 4 governments doing their own thing but all of the devolved nations rely heavily on the UK government for most things to do with the pandemic..

The vaccine selection where the UK government selected well by choosing the correct 6 out of the 58 in development is an example. The regional governments had nothing to do with these arrangements.

The detailed advice to various industries, the NHS, education and sports is produced by the UK government and reproduced by the regional governments. All this means is that the UK government's advice is changed slightly. Where there are references to England a minor functionary in the Assembly deletes these and replaces England with Wales. That is how the system works.

In reality the regional governments don't do a lot. Even the vaccine procurement and distribution is organised by the UK government in conjunction with the army, NHS and Kate Bingham's Department.

The regional governments then apply their anything but England analysis to exert their independence. Fair enough but let's not kid ourselves that the regional governments play anything but a secondary role.

The Welsh government it is said is being more cautious than in England. Yes. The WAG did the right thing in locking down last September but ruined it all by making the situation far worse by allowing for a free for all after their initial lockdown. Not exactly cautious in my view. The other changes made have been relatively minor and of little consequence.

Let's face it there is a lot of politicking going on regionally. Several posts congratulate the Welsh government for their role but there is also a case of when things go wrong it's the fault of the Tories and when things go right it's the Labour government doing a better job. That's nonsense.

My recollection is that when it was perceived that the WAG had blundered in only having a two and a half week break in October/November, there weren’t many people trying to blame the subsequent rise in cases and deaths through December on the UK Government, Drakeford was getting it in the neck then and rightly so. It was the same when Wales made a slow start to the vaccination programme compared to the other countries in the new year, so, like much of your post, you’re being very selective in coming to your UK Govermentcentric (Tory) conclusions - no one can say for sure, but my view is that the outcome of the Senedd elections would have pretty different if they’d been held in, say, January.

Going back to the mistakethe WAG made regarding their “firebreak” lockdown in the autumn, they still had announced, and implemented, a rolling back of the planned Christmas programme of opening everything up for a few days before the UK Government did. Johnson cocked up the timing of three lockdowns before he finally, it seems, discovered the comparative caution which has marked the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish approach to such things - in the autumn and over Christmas the Uk Government eventually followed the examples of the other three countries and yet to hear some of you talk on here, their motivations have solely been to cause problems for Johnson and co.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

So much to say and not enough time...

We don't know whether Boris would have changed his approach if UK was acting as one but it's likely that i) England would have loudest voice as majority of population lives there and ii) if Wales had more closely followed England's approach throughout Wales would have been in a worse position, as would have Scotland, based on different demographics of population.

There have been petty differences created which don't make sense (different take on what counts as a young person between Scotland and Wales, now crowds outside between Wales and England as you've pointed out in your post); and opportunities missed (we're now waiting for 4 weeks to be able to use the English NHS app for vaccine passports, stronger action after fire-break could have been taken); but also reasons to be happy a different approach was taken (children and outdoor activity recognised as being safer earlier in Scotland, a lower peak in Wales and Scotland during winter despite different demographics); and unhappy when each government acted together (not testing those going into care homes).

Drakeford and Sturgeon have been vocal about wanting a one UK approach but perhaps that's wanting a one UK approach and closer to what they've seen as being needed rather than what Boris has. Stating that you want one UK approach leads onto some big questions about who gets and who misses out on what they want and that follow up is rarely put to those calling for said one approach.

Regarding virus, maybe we're saying same thing from different angles. If who, what, where you are changes degree of exposure and impact on you if you catch it then, to me, the virus does care about those things even if it doesn't know it.

The virus doesn't care about anything, just replication. The variable is the host. If a large amount of virus is inhaled, if the host immune system is compromised through disease or age, if the environment has continued exposure to it...these are the things that matter.

All this RNA virus needs is adsorption, then penetration into cell cytoplasm, to start its journey of replication.

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

My recollection is that when it was perceived that the WAG had blundered in only having a two and a half week break in October/November, there weren’t many people trying to blame the subsequent rise in cases and deaths through December on the UK Government, Drakeford was getting it in the neck then and rightly so. It was the same when Wales made a slow start to the vaccination programme compared to the other countries in the new year, so, like much of your post, you’re being very selective in coming to your UK Govermentcentric (Tory) conclusions - no one can say for sure, but my view is that the outcome of the Senedd elections would have pretty different if they’d been held in, say, January.

Going back to the mistakethe WAG made regarding their “firebreak” lockdown in the autumn, they still had announced, and implemented, a rolling back of the planned Christmas programme of opening everything up for a few days before the UK Government did. Johnson cocked up the timing of three lockdowns before he finally, it seems, discovered the comparative caution which has marked the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish approach to such things - in the autumn and over Christmas the Uk Government eventually followed the examples of the other three countries and yet to hear some of you talk on here, their motivations have solely been to cause problems for Johnson and co.

Your post only covers one aspect. Never mind. My conclusions are not Tory. I am now a floating voter having previously been a card carrying member of the Labour Party.

[Hilts]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9584823/amp/Indian-covid-UK-Hancock-defends-timing-travel-restrictions-Labour-calls-delay-holidays.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16212567032649&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-9584823%2FIndian-covid-UK-Hancock-defends-timing-travel-restrictions-Labour-calls-delay-holidays.html

Another blunder?

[Delbert]

Re: Coronavirus update

The JCVI announced last week that, due to the rapid rise in cases of the Indian strain, the second dose of vaccine should be brought forward from 12 weeks to 8 weeks. However there doesn’t seem to have been any announcement in Wales regarding this?

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

The JCVI announced last week that, due to the rapid rise in cases of the Indian strain, the second dose of vaccine should be brought forward from 12 weeks to 8 weeks. However there doesn’t seem to have been any announcement in Wales regarding this?

But I think we are already quite well ahead of the rest of the country in this anyway, thank god. As I posted my boy is 20 and he has already had his first shot. I understood they were only rushing the vaccine in Indian variant hotspots like Bolton.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

But I think we are already quite well ahead of the rest of the country in this anyway, thank god. As I posted my boy is 20 and he has already had his first shot. I understood they were only rushing the vaccine in Indian variant hotspots like Bolton.

They were bringing 2nd jabs forward anyway, I was told that when I had my first one 5 weeks ago

[Hilts]

Re: Coronavirus update

The JCVI announced last week that, due to the rapid rise in cases of the Indian strain, the second dose of vaccine should be brought forward from 12 weeks to 8 weeks. However there doesn’t seem to have been any announcement in Wales regarding this?

Virtually everyone I know who was vaccinated at a centre had their 2nd jab well before the 12 week period. Seems to be about 5 to 6 weeks.

GP surgeries seems different. My parents had to chase theirs. 12 weeks plus 1 day.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

My recollection is that when it was perceived that the WAG had blundered in only having a two and a half week break in October/November, there weren’t many people trying to blame the subsequent rise in cases and deaths through December on the UK Government, Drakeford was getting it in the neck then and rightly so. It was the same when Wales made a slow start to the vaccination programme compared to the other countries in the new year, so, like much of your post, you’re being very selective in coming to your UK Govermentcentric (Tory) conclusions - no one can say for sure, but my view is that the outcome of the Senedd elections would have pretty different if they’d been held in, say, January.

Going back to the mistakethe WAG made regarding their “firebreak” lockdown in the autumn, they still had announced, and implemented, a rolling back of the planned Christmas programme of opening everything up for a few days before the UK Government did. Johnson cocked up the timing of three lockdowns before he finally, it seems, discovered the comparative caution which has marked the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish approach to such things - in the autumn and over Christmas the Uk Government eventually followed the examples of the other three countries and yet to hear some of you talk on here, their motivations have solely been to cause problems for Johnson and co.

In all fairness I don't think there was ever anything wrong with the vaccine roll out. What made people upset and vocal was Drakeford's stupid comment about dishing it out on some kind of drip feed so that there weren't people "Standing idle" implying that people having nothing to do was a bigger problem to him than people not getting he vaccine as quickly as possible.
In reality slowing the roll out was never actually the case.

[City123]

Re: Coronavirus update

Everyone 18+ in Cardiff & Vale Healthboard to have vaccine by end of the month

We have arranged appointments for our population aged 18 and over to receive their first vaccine by 30th May. Appointment letters should arrive by the end of this week ✉️

If you have been missed, please complete our form: https://t.co/IvlNfwY6Us OR call us on 02921 841234 �� pic.twitter.com/hQMrFliLX8

— Cardiff & Vale UHB (@CV_UHB) May 18, 2021