Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Coronavirus update

He stated clearly that whatever England did he would not do. And he said it before the scientists had made their judgement.
So if the science said lift the bans he would not have done it.
Now it says keep the bans what will he do, lift them or impose even more?
It's not rocket science is it?

:moronsmiley:

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

The point is what you said about keeping India off the red list just so Boris could go there is a load of bollox and you know it is.
You can put up 100 links but it will not alter the fact that red green amber black vermillion or whatever colour a list might be the PM can still go to that country in pursuance of the Business of government, just as heads of state could come here for a conference.
He doesn't need to keep it on any list.

This is a Prime Minister and government obsessed with optics and imagery. "Global Britain", whatever that means (I think any continent except Europe) targets India and his fellow populist leader Modi. A PM with a reputation for dithering , dithers about closing the door to India as the same time as Pakistan and Bangladesh. In that time over 20k people come to the UK and the Indian/Delta strain dominates.

The idea that Johnson would visit a country that his government had just placed on the red list, regardless of his perceived right to do so is for the fairies. Even the Mail would have hammered him. It's not rocket science.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

This is a Prime Minister and government obsessed with optics and imagery. "Global Britain", whatever that means (I think any continent except Europe) targets India and his fellow populist leader Modi. A PM with a reputation for dithering , dithers about closing the door to India as the same time as Pakistan and Bangladesh. In that time over 20k people come to the UK and the Indian/Delta strain dominates.

The idea that Johnson would visit a country that his government had just placed on the red list, regardless of his perceived right to do so is for the fairies. Even the Mail would have hammered him. It's not rocket science.

Clearly it isn't but the point is he doesn't need it to not be on the red list, he could go anyway. People, journos and the like, may have opinions as to why it was kept off the red list but it would not have been "just so" boris could go there.

[Rjk]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://twitter.com/HillyFoz/status/1404491256189927430?s=19

you have to feel sorry for the guy doing the sign language here

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

Clearly it isn't but the point is he doesn't need it to not be on the red list, he could go anyway. People, journos and the like, may have opinions as to why it was kept off the red list but it would not have been "just so" boris could go there.

Not sure, you are getting the point. There is a planned visit. It is part of the post-Brexit strategy of greater engagement with dynamic new markets. When the science about the Indian sub-continent came to his table he should have treated India as the other nations. He didn't. I could only speculate why but a more favourable treatment of a country that the UK is targeting post Brexit is most likely. The idea that Johnson would go to a country he just or should have placed on the red list because he could is frankly laughable!

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Not sure, you are getting the point. There is a planned visit. It is part of the post-Brexit strategy of greater engagement with dynamic new markets. When the science about the Indian sub-continent came to his table he should have treated India as the other nations. He didn't. I could only speculate why but a more favourable treatment of a country that the UK is targeting post Brexit is most likely. The idea that Johnson would go to a country he just or should have placed on the red list because he could is frankly laughable!

I'm not disputing what you say. All I did was suggest that what TOBW said about it being left off he red list "Just so Boris could go" and for no other reason is silly. Nothing else. I think it is laughable. That's it!

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

I'm not disputing what you say. All I did was suggest that what TOBW said about it being left off he red list "Just so Boris could go" and for no other reason is silly. Nothing else. I think it is laughable. That's it!

The accusation is not that the delay was to allow Johnson to go, it was to preserve the opportunity for him to visit without looking like he was travelling in a manner his government was banning. Why is he not banged up in a hotel for 10 days like every other red list visitor? The dominant virus that has forced a further month on lockdown restrictions came into the UK during that period. I guess that will be another thing that will have to wait for the public enquiry, whenever that takes place!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Not sure, you are getting the point. There is a planned visit. It is part of the post-Brexit strategy of greater engagement with dynamic new markets. When the science about the Indian sub-continent came to his table he should have treated India as the other nations. He didn't. I could only speculate why but a more favourable treatment of a country that the UK is targeting post Brexit is most likely. The idea that Johnson would go to a country he just or should have placed on the red list because he could is frankly laughable!

He's definitely not getting the point. In another post, you said "This is a Prime Minister and government obsessed with optics and imagery.", even Johnson must realise that jetting off to countries everyone else is banned from visiting is a terrible look which you'd guess would lose him popularity (I say that, but the blind loyalty shown to him and his Government by around forty per cent of voters means that there is a rump in this country who mirror the devotion to Trump we still see in America - the Trump quote about how he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose votes could apply to Johnson and, say, Oxford Street here).

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

He stated clearly that whatever England did he would not do. And he said it before the scientists had made their judgement.
So if the science said lift the bans he would not have done it.
Now it says keep the bans what will he do, lift them or impose even more?
It's not rocket science is it?

It's so easy for you isn't it. All you have to do is repeat what you think you heard or read as fact and jump to conclusions which suit your agenda. Here is what Mark Drakeford actually said;-

https://nation.cymru/news/wales-wont-lift-all-restrictions-on-june-21-even-if-england-does-drakeford-confirms/

It's not quite the same as you said it was is it? Now, it appears to me that what Johnson said yesterday could be construed as an admission that the Drakeford view was the correct one in that there was a still a need for caution, but maybe your theory that we can expect Drakeford to go back on what he said earlier this month any time today might be right - after all, the First Minister changes his mind so often when it comes to the Pandemic doesn't he.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

It somewhat sours a trip if you've just told people not to visit a country whether that's causing a frostier reception once you're there or creating some big questions at home as they watch you fly out. I think there is probably some truth in Boris wanting to delay based on trade talks with India.

However, as far as I can tell, the scientist's Boris stands next to haven't really backed down on their support for the delay. At several times during this pandemic the scientists haven't come to consensus about wanting to act until there was a need to do so yesterday - which is usually followed by politicians not wanting to act until there was a need a month ago - so this might be another example of this.

It's much easier to take unpopular action when there is public backing for it which only happens once horse has bolted. I don't think it's only Boris wanting a positive (key word) trip to India that has contributed to late action on India, though that might be the most shameful reason.

At the same time, there was some action on India before it went to the red list and some people will have chosen to fly home via Turkey/other to avoid needing to play their part after it was on red list - similar happened with previous variant hotspots.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

....

However, as far as I can tell, the scientist's Boris stands next to haven't really backed down on their support for the delay. At several times during this pandemic the scientists haven't come to consensus about wanting to act until there was a need to do so yesterday - which is usually followed by politicians not wanting to act until there was a need a month ago - so this might be another example of this.

It's much easier to take unpopular action when there is public backing for it which only happens once horse has bolted....

And to demonstrate why it's politician's rather than just Tory government:

V Gething just referenced how Wales was ahead of the rest of the UK in bringing in the firebreak and therefore didn't have to keep it in place for as long.

Forget the rest of the UK this is about Wales. We went into the firebreak OVER A MONTH after it was recommended by SAGE.

https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/s...08899705397251

Nicola Sturgeon would argue that she brought in much tougher measures across most populated areas of Scotland sooner than Wales brought in firebreak as well. Though both took action before government in Westminster did.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

It's so easy for you isn't it. All you have to do is repeat what you think you heard or read as fact and jump to conclusions which suit your agenda. Here is what Mark Drakeford actually said;-

https://nation.cymru/news/wales-wont-lift-all-restrictions-on-june-21-even-if-england-does-drakeford-confirms/

It's not quite the same as you said it was is it? Now, it appears to me that what Johnson said yesterday could be construed as an admission that the Drakeford view was the correct one in that there was a still a need for caution, but maybe your theory that we can expect Drakeford to go back on what he said earlier this month any time today might be right - after all, the First Minister changes his mind so often when it comes to the Pandemic doesn't he.

you've got a cheek talking about things being so easy for people. you believe that you are the only person on here who can writ properly and that your posts must be respected just because they come from you. You may know a lot about City but that doesn't make you omnipotent in all things.
I said that your statement (of fact) that the ONLY reason India was kept off the red list was because Boris wanted to visit was bollox. It is an opinion, that's all.

For every post someone puts up stating black someone else will find something that says white. Most of the posts are peppered with words like if should might could maybe and so on. None of it is fact most of the time. But because it's printed in the Guardian or somewhere else within your myopic vision it must be so. Get a life!!

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

It somewhat sours a trip if you've just told people not to visit a country whether that's causing a frostier reception once you're there or creating some big questions at home as they watch you fly out. I think there is probably some truth in Boris wanting to delay based on trade talks with India.

However, as far as I can tell, the scientist's Boris stands next to haven't really backed down on their support for the delay. At several times during this pandemic the scientists haven't come to consensus about wanting to act until there was a need to do so yesterday - which is usually followed by politicians not wanting to act until there was a need a month ago - so this might be another example of this.

It's much easier to take unpopular action when there is public backing for it which only happens once horse has bolted. I don't think it's only Boris wanting a positive (key word) trip to India that has contributed to late action on India, though that might be the most shameful reason.

At the same time, there was some action on India before it went to the red list and some people will have chosen to fly home via Turkey/other to avoid needing to play their part after it was on red list - similar happened with previous variant hotspots.

That is exactly right. There was the same delay with Pakistan and Bangladesh earlier in the month when they had higher case levels, but the press and the opposition didn't jump on that because there wasn't any talk of the PM visiting those places. Hancock was asked about the India red list discussion in parliament and said it was a scientific decision. But don't let that interfere with people on here having their opinions as FACT.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

you've got a cheek talking about things being so easy for people. you believe that you are the only person on here who can writ properly and that your posts must be respected just because they come from you. You may know a lot about City but that doesn't make you omnipotent in all things.
I said that your statement (of fact) that the ONLY reason India was kept off the red list was because Boris wanted to visit was bollox. It is an opinion, that's all.

For every post someone puts up stating black someone else will find something that says white. Most of the posts are peppered with words like if should might could maybe and so on. None of it is fact most of the time. But because it's printed in the Guardian or somewhere else within your myopic vision it must be so. Get a life!!

Touched a nerve there didn’t I . Have another look at what I actually said rather than what you think I said, how can I be making a statement of fact as you call it when I end what I say with a question mark?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

That is exactly right. There was the same delay with Pakistan and Bangladesh earlier in the month when they had higher case levels, but the press and the opposition didn't jump on that because there wasn't any talk of the PM visiting those places. Hancock was asked about the India red list discussion in parliament and said it was a scientific decision. But don't let that interfere with people on here having their opinions as FACT.

Here are some facts to go with your opinions.


Bangladesh had the South Africa but not the Brazil variant and Pakistan had neither when they were added to the red list on 9 April.

India had both, as well as a new variant, but was not added for another two weeks.

On 9 April:

Pakistan had a seven-day average of 21 cases per million people
Bangladesh had twice as many
India had four times as many