Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Baloo]

Re: Coronavirus update

Nor ad-hominem attacks. Strange that.

Apologise to Jon not me.

[CCFCC3PO]

Re: Coronavirus update

Apologise to Jon not me.

I haven't apologised to you.

In response to me saying that we have never before produced a vaccine in 18 months, Jon was as sarcastic in his response as I was in mine.

After extensive research (3 clicks on Google) I can reveal that a vaccine for Zika virus was developed and ready for testing in 7 months - back in 2015.

So, now you have the context let's see you come to a more reasoned conclusion.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Taken from the Guardian's rolling coverage of COVID 19 earlier this morning;-


"10:47
An interesting study has emerged in the US which found that the number of people infected with coronavirus could be as much as 85 times higher than previously thought.

The research from Stanford University, which was published on Friday, tested samples from 3,330 people in Santa Clara county, in California, and found the virus to be 50 to 85 times more common than official figures indicated.

The study, the first large-scale one of its kind, has yet to be peer reviewed and was conducted by identifying antibodies in healthy individuals through a finger prick test, which indicated whether they had already contracted and recovered from the virus.

At the time of the study, Santa Clara county had 1,094 confirmed cases of Covid-19, resulting in 50 deaths. But, based on the rate of people who have antibodies, it is likely that between 48,000 and 81,000 people had been infected in the county by early April – a number approximately 50 to 80 times higher."

[Baloo]

Re: Coronavirus update

I haven't apologised to you.

In response to me saying that we have never before produced a vaccine in 18 months, Jon was as sarcastic in his response as I was in mine.



So, now you have the context let's see you come to a more reasoned conclusion.

Fair enough

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

The Oxford University team appear to have thought of the manufacturing element of the process, and have the potential to produce 1 million doses. Let's say that their vaccine is a complete success, is that something that they "own" and sell on to other pharmaceutical companies around the world? Or is it something that becomes public domain, allowing countries to produce their own vaccines locally (where possible)?

One would hope in the current situation that the latter would be the case!

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Coronavirus update

Nor ad-hominem attacks. Strange that.

Congratulations on becoming the latest victim of the CCMB bully boys. If you have any view outside of the accepted groupthink you will be mercilessly attacked and ridiculed, even if you are right about everything. That's just the way it is on here, alternative facts are the new ultimate truth

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

Taken from the Guardian's rolling coverage of COVID 19 earlier this morning;-


"10:47
An interesting study has emerged in the US which found that the number of people infected with coronavirus could be as much as 85 times higher than previously thought.

The research from Stanford University, which was published on Friday, tested samples from 3,330 people in Santa Clara county, in California, and found the virus to be 50 to 85 times more common than official figures indicated.

The study, the first large-scale one of its kind, has yet to be peer reviewed and was conducted by identifying antibodies in healthy individuals through a finger prick test, which indicated whether they had already contracted and recovered from the virus.

At the time of the study, Santa Clara county had 1,094 confirmed cases of Covid-19, resulting in 50 deaths. But, based on the rate of people who have antibodies, it is likely that between 48,000 and 81,000 people had been infected in the county by early April – a number approximately 50 to 80 times higher."

The extrapolation from this is that infection rates are dramatically less than Govt. 'experts' are telling us. I posted last week an article from a leading advisor to the Home Office who said as much. also today [can't find it now] a leading expert in Finland said infection rates were closer to 0.14%. These are staggering differences to the current zeitgeist prevailing. One other thing - the countries who have applied the strictest lockdowns have had the most cases of COVID 19. The ones with the fewer restrictions , less cases. We've got 1000's of beds ready for CV19 patients, empty. We've cancelled critical treatment for the other 99% of the population...

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

The extrapolation from this is that infection rates are dramatically less than Govt. 'experts' are telling us. I posted last week an article from a leading advisor to the Home Office who said as much. also today [can't find it now] a leading expert in Finland said infection rates were closer to 0.14%. These are staggering differences to the current zeitgeist prevailing. One other thing - the countries who have applied the strictest lockdowns have had the most cases of COVID 19. The ones with the fewer restrictions , less cases. We've got 1000's of beds ready for CV19 patients, empty. We've cancelled critical treatment for the other 99% of the population...

Surely the extrapolation is that infection rates are much higher? Would like to see your working on that.

As for the lockdown/case comparison, are you saying that lockdown means it spreads more? I would imagine that number of cases is linked to number of tests more than anything else. And a country who takes it seriously enough to do lots of testing is also likely to take it seriously enough to have a lockdown.

[CCFCC3PO]

Re: Coronavirus update

Taken from the Guardian's rolling coverage of COVID 19 earlier this morning;-


"10:47
An interesting study has emerged in the US which found that the number of people infected with coronavirus could be as much as 85 times higher than previously thought.

The research from Stanford University, which was published on Friday, tested samples from 3,330 people in Santa Clara county, in California, and found the virus to be 50 to 85 times more common than official figures indicated.

The study, the first large-scale one of its kind, has yet to be peer reviewed and was conducted by identifying antibodies in healthy individuals through a finger prick test, which indicated whether they had already contracted and recovered from the virus.

At the time of the study, Santa Clara county had 1,094 confirmed cases of Covid-19, resulting in 50 deaths. But, based on the rate of people who have antibodies, it is likely that between 48,000 and 81,000 people had been infected in the county by early April – a number approximately 50 to 80 times higher."

I mean no offence when I say this, but I think the media need to hold back on sensationalising studies that are awaiting peer review.

[CCFCC3PO]

Re: Coronavirus update

The extrapolation from this is that infection rates are dramatically less than Govt. 'experts' are telling us. I posted last week an article from a leading advisor to the Home Office who said as much. also today [can't find it now] a leading expert in Finland said infection rates were closer to 0.14%. These are staggering differences to the current zeitgeist prevailing. One other thing - the countries who have applied the strictest lockdowns have had the most cases of COVID 19. The ones with the fewer restrictions , less cases. We've got 1000's of beds ready for CV19 patients, empty. We've cancelled critical treatment for the other 99% of the population...

I think you meam infection rates are dramatically higher? Why do you put experts in inverted commas, what is it that they are saying that makes you think they are not experts?

[CCFCC3PO]

Re: Coronavirus update

Ok, sorry, let's pick through this post.

The extrapolation from this is that infection rates are dramatically less than Govt. 'experts' are telling us

As Lardy says, how have you come to that conclusion?

I posted last week an article from a leading advisor to the Home Office who said as much. also today [can't find it now] a leading expert in Finland said infection rates were closer to 0.14%. These are staggering differences to the current zeitgeist prevailing.

You are in danger of believing the "experts" that suit your narrative.

One other thing - the countries who have applied the strictest lockdowns have had the most cases of COVID 19. The ones with the fewer restrictions , less cases.

Can you provide examples so that we can contrast and compare?

We've got 1000's of beds ready for CV19 patients, empty. We've cancelled critical treatment for the other 99% of the population...

Would you rather have too many beds, or too few?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

I mean no offence when I say this, but I think the media need to hold back on sensationalising studies that are awaiting peer review.

I'm not sure saying it is interesting while pointing out themselves that there has been no peer review yet is sensationalising it is it?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

I think you meam infection rates are dramatically higher? Why do you put experts in inverted commas, what is it that they are saying that makes you think they are not experts?

I meant mortality rates - my error. If you find one expert you can find another with a different view. The Govt. opted for Ferguson. That's why we have 1000's of empty beds in specially built facilities lying almost empty. Also practically every other type of operation has been cancelled - even critical heart and cancer ones. Specialist wards are almost empty with spare staff. Experts said ventilators were crucial, two weeks ago there was a mad panic. Now it seems they're actually responsible for more deaths.

I know sod all about any of this except I don't swallow every bit of c**p I'm told. Probably an age thing. People of my generation are much more sceptical than the internet -savvy folk of today..

[jon1959]

Re: Coronavirus update

I haven't apologised to you.

In response to me saying that we have never before produced a vaccine in 18 months, Jon was as sarcastic in his response as I was in mine.



So, now you have the context let's see you come to a more reasoned conclusion.

Fair enough

I was being a bit sarcastic, but that was in response to posts from CCFCC3PO that vaccines have never been developed in less than 5 years and his refusal to engage with the very many expert claims over recent months that a COVID9 vaccine may be available in 12-18 months based on current levels of research and collaboration. For what it's worth (contrary to his claim) I never said a Zika vaccine was produced in 7 months - I said I had found an online article that said the researchers were ready for clinical testing after 7 months (indicating rapid progress) but that the testing was never carried out because the virus fizzled out.

This is mainly about how confident we can be about vaccine development - and what that means for lock down, the importance of testing and tracing, and the shape and speed of any exit strategy - not about our variable levels of ignorance. My level of ignorance is very high, but I have enough confidence in people who do know stuff to think that CCFCC3POs insistence on 5 years minimum is overly pessimistic.

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

I meant mortality rates - my error. If you find one expert you can find another with a different view. The Govt. opted for Ferguson. That's why we have 1000's of empty beds in specially built facilities lying almost empty. Also practically every other type of operation has been cancelled - even critical heart and cancer ones. Specialist wards are almost empty with spare staff. Experts said ventilators were crucial, two weeks ago there was a mad panic. Now it seems they're actually responsible for more deaths.

I know sod all about any of this except I don't swallow every bit of c**p I'm told. Probably an age thing. People of my generation are much more sceptical than the internet -savvy folk of today..

I do wonder what needs to happen for you to swallow your pride and admit that the virus is actually a problem and it's not the media and politicians being drama queens.