Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[tell it like it is]

Re: Coronavirus update

One thing hasn't changed: Wales isn't mentioned in Westminster unless being used to slag off labour in the Senedd. It's not really a Union with our best interests in mind.

Damn, I must have imagined Welsh questions occurring in HoC before PMQs then.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

From the article



Prof Spiegelhalter said that coronavirus was not given as the cause on many of the death certificates but was likely to be a direct or indirect factor. He said many doctors would initially have been reluctant to designate the virus as the cause on death certificates as it was a new disease and they could not have been certain.

Some of those who died from other causes may have been too scared to attend hospital or did not want to be a burden on the health service so they could be seen as possible indirect victims of the virus, he argued. But he added, the sheer number of deaths caused by the virus meant, “there is no suggestion that the collateral damage — however large it is — is anything like as big as the harm from Covid”.

'Thousands missing out on cancer diagnosis' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52382303

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Coronavirus update

Damn, I must have imagined Welsh questions occurring in HoC before PMQs then.

Yes, get them out of the way before the real business.

It is also disappointing that Wales wasn't mentioned in the government's Brexit plans. Scotland and Northern Ireland were.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Yes, get them out of the way before the real business.

It is also disappointing that Wales wasn't mentioned in the government's Brexit plans. Scotland and Northern Ireland were.

There is a reason for that historically but its not worth discussing it.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

18,000 deaths in a month. Those using the death rate as an argument against social distancing are going to have to find a new argument I suppose.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

18,000 deaths in a month. Those using the death rate as an argument against social distancing are going to have to find a new argument I suppose.

How many do we usually have this time of year?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

How many do we usually have this time of year?

Can be as high a 20,000 in a peak 'flu season. One point. Deaths are announced - on the BBC for example as "...having been identified as contracting CV. They're careful not to say 'died of CV'. Sadly a lot of those 18,000 would have died soon anyway. However I reckon in about 6 months' time when the figures for deaths from un-treated/diagnosed cancer, heart, etc. conditions are calculated, they'll more than match the total CV -related deaths..

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

Can be as high a 20,000 in a peak 'flu season. One point. Deaths are announced - on the BBC for example as "...having been identified as contracting CV. They're careful not to say 'died of CV'. Sadly a lot of those 18,000 would have died soon anyway. However I reckon in about 6 months' time when the figures for deaths from un-treated/diagnosed cancer, heart, etc. conditions are calculated, they'll more than match the total CV -related deaths..

High as 20,000 annually for flu, and this is 18,000 in less than six weeks.

If it's the case that most of these people would die soon anyway, and I'm not saying it isn't, then that would also be the case with most seasonal flu victims. So why do we bother giving annual flu jabs to the older generation and NHS staff?

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

High as 20,000 annually for flu, and this is 18,000 in less than six weeks.

If it's the case that most of these people would die soon anyway, and I'm not saying it isn't, then that would also be the case with most seasonal flu victims. So why do we bother giving annual flu jabs to the older generation and NHS staff?

18,000 with a lockdown in place. How many would it be without it?

I don't get the "these people would have died soon anyway", what is that based on?

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

18,000 with a lockdown in place. How many would it be without it?

I don't get the "these people would have died soon anyway", what is that based on?

I think it's based on most deaths being old. We'll all become a death statistic some day, so I'm not getting into an imaginary prediction debate of how and when it might happen.

My point is that the "they'll die soon anyway" argument doesn't hold water when we try hard to vaccinate the same people who'll die soon against flu. So it obviously is a consideration to keep people alive.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Also how old is old enough to die? Aren't a lot of these people in their 70s?

Imagine working all your life just getting to retirement and then dying of this virus. Then being discounted in the numbers as they were old anyway. Madness.

[splott parker]

Re: Coronavirus update

Also how old is old enough to die? Aren't a lot of these people in their 70s?

Imagine working all your life just getting to retirement and then dying of this virus. Then being discounted in the numbers as they were old anyway. Madness.

Nobody is old enough to die, there are 70 year olds who are younger than 40 year olds, if you get my drift. Some old ‘uns would jump over the head of people years younger.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Nobody is old enough to die, there are 70 year olds who are younger than 40 year olds, if you get my drift. Some old ‘uns would jump over the head of people years younger.

I agree, that's why it seems such a mad attitude to me

[Tuerto]

Re: Coronavirus update

Can be as high a 20,000 in a peak 'flu season. One point. Deaths are announced - on the BBC for example as "...having been identified as contracting CV. They're careful not to say 'died of CV'. Sadly a lot of those 18,000 would have died soon anyway. However I reckon in about 6 months' time when the figures for deaths from un-treated/diagnosed cancer, heart, etc. conditions are calculated, they'll more than match the total CV -related deaths..

I don't think that Cause of death is ever a virus, it's the symptoms of a virus or disease, same with an accident. If a person fell down a lift shaft his or her cause of death wouldn't be falling down a lift shaft, it'd be multiple head injuries or brain damage etc.

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

I don't think that Cause of death is ever a virus, it's the symptoms of a virus or disease, same with an accident. If a person fell down a lift shaft his or her cause of death wouldn't be falling down a lift shaft, it'd be multiple head injuries or brain damage etc.

Yeah this is true. I'm sure there are many deaths from flu that only occur because of underlying illness but nevertheless appear in the stats.

You either accept both flu and coronavirus in this way, or neither. Using the flu figures because they look good but refuting the coronavirus ones because there's other illness there is cherrypicking.