Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

The biggest questions that governments in every part of the UK have to answer are these: the lockdown was justified partly as a means to buy time to put the systems (tracktrace/effective small local lockdowns/mass testing etc) in place which would mean we might not need to...

... return to onerous blanket restrictions either nationally or across large swathes of the country. Given such restrictions are returning- what happened to those systems? What effect have they had? Were these the wrong strategies in the first place? And now do we need new ones?

Because though obviously the acute problem of the rising cases is worrying, perhaps the bigger worry is the strategic one: the fact we’re at all and there’s not much sense yet from any politician of how we prevent it again, while we wait for a vaccine, which may never come.

So in short: is it the same strategies but better executed? Or something different?

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...39528249171968

NEW: Once again Test and Trace in England has its worst week yet. Just 59.6% of close contacts of people infected were reached in the week to 14th October. Down from 63% from the previous week.

Experts say that the hit rate needs to be at least 80% to be effective.

In addition, only 15.1% of people who undertook an on site in person test received their result in 24 hours.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...27391336730624

How can the strategies the UK has invested in be doing so badly? Can't fully blame Serco as they're only a part of it, for same reason probably can't fully blame Dido Harding though certainly hasn't demonstrated any expertise yet. Don't even start on isolating vulnerable because there are so many problems with that it's a last resort after exhausting everything else rather than go-to as some are suggesting.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

How can the strategies the UK has invested in be doing so badly? Can't fully blame Serco as they're only a part of it, for same reason probably can't fully blame Dido Harding though certainly hasn't demonstrated any expertise yet. Don't even start on isolating vulnerable because there are so many problems with that it's a last resort after exhausting everything else rather than go-to as some are suggesting.

Who is running Test and Trace: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b68d1b09c77477

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Who is running Test and Trace: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b68d1b09c77477

Of course outside companies are running it. The NHS hasn't got the expertise or resources to do it. Do you think it builds its own hospitals, or makes all the medicines used? Of course not. Same with Test and Trace

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

The Government more or less admitted defeat today didn't it? They were proclaiming that an R rate of 1.5 was a good effort. Essentially, it means that the virus is spreading exponentially.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

Of course outside companies are running it. The NHS hasn't got the expertise or resources to do it. Do you think it builds its own hospitals, or makes all the medicines used? Of course not. Same with Test and Trace

Are you trying to say that there were no other options such as building on the existing local government infrastructure that was already in place rather than consciously building a centralised privately led privately run system that Boris Johnson today, after £12b of public money has been spent said "was helping a bit".

The BMJ certainly seemed to think so when they looked at how Germany had taken the former path rather than the latter. They called it lessons learned but I guess we will need to wait for the public enquiry to see if this has any grounding in fact.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2522

At the same time local public health services were mobilised and revitalised. In April both federal and state governments agreed to provide additional investment to strengthen local public health authorities.8 Civil servants were redeployed to public health from elsewhere and extra staff employed to support local contact tracing. Germany built on existing infrastructure and experience from the outset, unlike England, where local public health departments were overlooked in favour of a centralised system run by outsourced companies.

Later, as population restrictions were being lifted, chancellor Angela Merkel and the prime ministers of the federal states agreed that local authorities should have five contact tracers for every 20 000 citizens.9 Inexperience of new staff members was overcome by embedding them in experienced organisational structures, helping to limit the difficulties reported in England.10

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Are you trying to say that there were no other options such as building on the existing local government infrastructure that was already in place rather than consciously building a centralised privately led privately run system that Boris Johnson today, after £12b of public money has been spent said "was helping a bit".

The BMJ certainly seemed to think so when they looked at how Germany had taken the former path rather than the latter. They called it lessons learned but I guess we will need to wait for the public enquiry to see if this has any grounding in fact.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2522

At the same time local public health services were mobilised and revitalised. In April both federal and state governments agreed to provide additional investment to strengthen local public health authorities.8 Civil servants were redeployed to public health from elsewhere and extra staff employed to support local contact tracing. Germany built on existing infrastructure and experience from the outset, unlike England, where local public health departments were overlooked in favour of a centralised system run by outsourced companies.

Later, as population restrictions were being lifted, chancellor Angela Merkel and the prime ministers of the federal states agreed that local authorities should have five contact tracers for every 20 000 citizens.9 Inexperience of new staff members was overcome by embedding them in experienced organisational structures, helping to limit the difficulties reported in England.10

My message was that the NHS is not capable of running the Test and Trace system without outside commercial assistance. Im not saying that we took the best path, as obviously we haven't.
As usual we have a cumbersome system in UK, where health authorities and local authorities do not align geographically, where social care and medical care responsibilities and budgets sit in different pots ( except n Ireland), making it much more difficult for us to do what Germany did so effectively. Plus of course devolved governments wanting to tweak even the most straightforward plans

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

Supermarkets will be unable to sell items like clothes during the 17-day Covid firebreak lockdown in Wales.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

Supermarkets will be unable to sell items like clothes during the 17-day Covid firebreak lockdown in Wales.

Does anyone think this is a good idea?

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Coronavirus update

Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Yes.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Yes. The more people are out and in contact with others, the more the virus will spread.

I think it would be a good idea if people were limited to 1 hour in there, not sure how that could be done.

I also think a 17 day lockdown is too little, too late.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Coronavirus update

Yes.

Seriously? The supermarkets will be open anyway. What is the point of preventing them from selling "non-essential" items?

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Coronavirus update

Seriously? The supermarkets will be open anyway. What is the point of preventing them from selling "non-essential" items?

If you are going to do it, do it properly.

Last time there were plenty of middle-aged women checking out the clothes in M&S. It's a lockdown not a chance to pick up some sensible shoes.

[Dorcus]

Re: Coronavirus update

If you are going to do it, do it properly.

Last time there were plenty of middle-aged women checking out the clothes in M&S. It's a lockdown not a chance to pick up some sensible shoes.

Absolutely agree, let's do it properly.

It's only for 17 days, surely people have enough clothes to last them through? It's not as though they'll be going anywhere; they'd be better off buying a few good books

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

Seriously? The supermarkets will be open anyway. What is the point of preventing them from selling "non-essential" items?

People touch clothes and spend longer browsing them. You don't touch the different brands of cornflakes to decide which you like best.

[life on mars]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

Supermarkets will be unable to sell items like clothes during the 17-day Covid firebreak lockdown in Wales.

Maddness . What about small business that survive with diversity of products some essential some not , I do fear for our economic future .