Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Pilkers]

Re: Coronavirus update

So the latest figures of people who have sadly passed away due to covid 19 is 46,555 with no vaccine is a reason to lock us down?
When the flu with a vaccine sadly kills similar amount of people, but like got posted earlier before does not get reported.

The ons have recorded 61k death certificates mentioning covid. Additionally how many hundreds also died of covid in Welsh care homes during the first phase that didnt get tested and subsequently had an inaccurate cause registered on the death certificate.

This was a big thing at the time in Aneurin Bevan. I remember the manager of one in Newport saying she lost 15 residents in a fortnight. None had been tested positive, so the doctor refused to specify covid ascause of death.

We'll never know the true total, we do thou know the official party line figure announced daily is horse shit.

[Hilts]

Re: Coronavirus update

Surely it's the progression of the virus that determines when the lockdown should end and not some arbitrary end date?

Theyve delayed this for too long and not taking action sooner and initially saying there would be no national lockdown including Gove 2 weeks ago and Raab on Friday then yeah though the businesses having no certainty about re-opening particularly at such a busy time of year may not agree.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

The ons have recorded 61k death certificates mentioning covid. Additionally how many hundreds also died of covid in Welsh care homes during the first phase that didnt get tested and subsequently had an inaccurate cause registered on the death certificate.

This was a big thing at the time in Aneurin Bevan. I remember the manager of one in Newport saying she lost 15 residents in a fortnight. None had been tested positive, so the doctor refused to specify covid ascause of death.

We'll never know the true total, we do thou know the official party line figure announced daily is horse shit.

But the opposite is also true. Because Covid is a "Reportable disease" if it is suspected to be present he has to put it on the death certificate, even if the person was suffering from terminal cancer. Its a no win situation.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

The ons have recorded 61k death certificates mentioning covid. Additionally how many hundreds also died of covid in Welsh care homes during the first phase that didnt get tested and subsequently had an inaccurate cause registered on the death certificate.

This was a big thing at the time in Aneurin Bevan. I remember the manager of one in Newport saying she lost 15 residents in a fortnight. None had been tested positive, so the doctor refused to specify covid ascause of death.

We'll never know the true total, we do thou know the official party line figure announced daily is horse shit.

On the flip side lots of terminal cancer patients, many of whom only had weeks to live, were given Covid as cause of death. Any old infection would have done it probably. The “with Covid” certification is a load of cobblers

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

Surely it's the progression of the virus that determines when the lockdown should end and not some arbitrary end date?

It will still be here in 2 weeks, a month, 3 months and probably next year......we just need to learn to live with it better, adhere to the rules etc....people are still mixing households which is the main issue.

[Pilkers]

Re: Coronavirus update

But the opposite is also true. Because Covid is a "Reportable disease" if it is suspected to be present he has to put it on the death certificate, even if the person was suffering from terminal cancer. Its a no win situation.

Fair point.

Didn't happen here thou for what ever reason or motive, not in my health board anyway, were certifying gp's acting on instruction from the corona? That's the suspicion. We wont know for sure until if and when a full investigation of practices during the pandemic is carried out.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Coronavirus update

On the flip side lots of terminal cancer patients, many of whom only had weeks to live, were given Covid as cause of death. Any old infection would have done it probably. The “with Covid” certification is a load of cobblers

I agree with this. I reckon the Excess Deaths figures are comfortably the best indicator of the effect of Covid-19.

There have been periods during 2020 when the overall number of deaths in the UK has been below the five-year average. That was the case as recently as early-September. However, the figures for April and May were massively above average and they are definitely on the rise again.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Want to know more, Bob?



In her talk she said she expects all over-50s to have vaccine available by Easter. It includes this nugget:

Funny how these Tory MPs wives also happen to be experts in virus control isn't it - uniquely for me, I tend to side with the Michael Gove view of experts in this case .

Given her background, I tend to take those comments with a pinch of salt, but if it were to be true that a vaccine was available to over 50s in less than six months time, you'd like to think that there would be something for the most vulnerable by March or even February.

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

Theyve delayed this for too long and not taking action sooner and initially saying there would be no national lockdown including Gove 2 weeks ago and Raab on Friday then yeah though the businesses having no certainty about re-opening particularly at such a busy time of year may not agree.

Your comment doesn't answer the question. I will ask again. Should the lockdown end at an arbitrary date or should the end date be determined by progression of the virus? All your post does is snipe as usual and doesn't answer the quote to which you have referred.

I'm not bothered whether you reply or not but if you quote my post you could at least give an answer that relates to the question asked.

[delmbox]

Re: Coronavirus update

On the flip side lots of terminal cancer patients, many of whom only had weeks to live, were given Covid as cause of death. Any old infection would have done it probably. The “with Covid” certification is a load of cobblers

You're right, when someone with terminal cancer got Covid and died they should specify "any old infection would have done it probably" on the death certificate

[Hilts]

Re: Coronavirus update

Your comment doesn't answer the question. I will ask again. Should the lockdown end at an arbitrary date or should the end date be determined by progression of the virus? All your post does is snipe as usual and doesn't answer the quote to which you have referred.

I'm not bothered whether you reply or not but if you quote my post you could at least give an answer that relates to the question asked.

When i said then yeah. I mean yes.

[Dorcus]

Re: Coronavirus update

Surely it's the progression of the virus that determines when the lockdown should end and not some arbitrary end date?

I see the Tory right wing are bellyaching en masse at the latest decision to lockdown England. The well known prick of the highest order IDS is spitting feathers and apparently this was before Gove made his comment on Sophie Ridge that the lockdown may not end on December 2nd.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is wrong to give an end date for any of these measures. I can understand the desire for people and businesses to have specific dates to plan things but the very nature of the disease makes it difficult to forecast it's trajectory with any degree of certainty. The honest answer would be "we have a criterion (the R number for example) and when that is reduced to a specific number we shall withdraw the restrictions".

Anything else is just tokenism so as to keep different factions happy. The enemy is the virus and we should all tackle it in unison and not fight among ourselves.

[Baloo]

Re: Coronavirus update

On the flip side lots of terminal cancer patients, many of whom only had weeks to live, were given Covid as cause of death. Any old infection would have done it probably. The “with Covid” certification is a load of cobblers

Hasn't that criticism also been levelled at the flu figures you've been quoting?

I read somewhere that in 93% of deaths with Covid on the death certificate it is considered the main underlying underlying cause. Which is far higher than deaths recorded and published as 'associated with flu'. Tbh, I can't remember where I read that but it stuck in my mind.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

I agree with this. I reckon the Excess Deaths figures are comfortably the best indicator of the effect of Covid-19.

There have been periods during 2020 when the overall number of deaths in the UK has been below the five-year average. That was the case as recently as early-September. However, the figures for April and May were massively above average and they are definitely on the rise again.

And it could just even out as August was well below average. As sad as it always is, people are always going to die of something, sometimes out if the blue, sepsis will be even bigger in the next few years as antibiotics have become overused. Suicides being the biggest killer of men under 45 and you know it’s going to get a lot worse if we don’t get in top of this virus soon.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

You're right, when someone with terminal cancer got Covid and died they should specify "any old infection would have done it probably" on the death certificate

Exactly what happened to my old man with liver cancer....infection after infection....then pneumonia for the final nail. Don’t think they put another infection down, think it was that cancer thing.