Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covid-vaccines

so it says they can both be given, although it is recommended that this should happen only if the first one given is not available, which makes sense.
It seems to me that it is another example of the media wanting bad news. When the scientists and Medical bosses said something and the Government did something else they were vilified for not listening to the scientists.
Now the scientist and head medics have said something and the doctors don't agree the scientists are being vilified for telling the doctors something they don't want to hear.
No matter what is said they will go out and find someone who disagrees and then quote them letting people think they speak for all when in reality they only speak for themselves. Like the guy who applied to be a vaccinator and is complaining in the news that the paperwork he was asked to complete was unacceptable. He said he had 3 days a week spare to help with vaccinations but then in the same article said he doesn't have time to complete the paperwork. Shirley they can't both be true. But the BBC didn't bother to point out that anomoly.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

so it says they can both be given, although it is recommended that this should happen only if the first one given is not available, which makes sense.
It seems to me that it is another example of the media wanting bad news. When the scientists and Medical bosses said something and the Government did something else they were vilified for not listening to the scientists.
Now the scientist and head medics have said something and the doctors don't agree the scientists are being vilified for telling the doctors something they don't want to hear.
No matter what is said they will go out and find someone who disagrees and then quote them letting people think they speak for all when in reality they only speak for themselves. Like the guy who applied to be a vaccinator and is complaining in the news that the paperwork he was asked to complete was unacceptable. He said he had 3 days a week spare to help with vaccinations but then in the same article said he doesn't have time to complete the paperwork. Shirley they can't both be true. But the BBC didn't bother to point out that anomoly.

I honestly can’t work out if you’re on a wind up or not.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

I honestly can’t work out if you’re on a wind up or not.

What that have I said do you not agree with?

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I am surprised to learn about the mix and match approach because I don't think the MHRA could have given approval for this based on the data they were given. Shirley this approach is non-licensed?

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

so it says they can both be given, although it is recommended that this should happen only if the first one given is not available, which makes sense.
It seems to me that it is another example of the media wanting bad news. When the scientists and Medical bosses said something and the Government did something else they were vilified for not listening to the scientists.
Now the scientist and head medics have said something and the doctors don't agree the scientists are being vilified for telling the doctors something they don't want to hear.
No matter what is said they will go out and find someone who disagrees and then quote them letting people think they speak for all when in reality they only speak for themselves. Like the guy who applied to be a vaccinator and is complaining in the news that the paperwork he was asked to complete was unacceptable. He said he had 3 days a week spare to help with vaccinations but then in the same article said he doesn't have time to complete the paperwork. Shirley they can't both be true. But the BBC didn't bother to point out that anomoly.

Mate, there have been NO CLINICAL TRIALS of mixing vaccines. The US Government are advising not to mix the vaccines. No other Government has suggested that the vaccines can be mixed and the UK Government are not suggesting it, but they are not advising against it. My question is, what is that based on other than "a hunch". There is no data to suggest mixing vaccines will be as effective, less effective, more effective or even counter-productive.

There are trials taking place that mix the UK vaccine with the Russian one, but that is at Phase One. Just to re-iterate, mixing the Oxford vaccine and the Pfizer one is currently not even at Phase One of trials.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

I am surprised to learn about the mix and match approach because I don't think the MHRA could have given approval for this based on the data they were given. Shirley this approach is non-licensed?

This is what Public Health England say.

“There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the Covid-19 vaccines although studies are under way.” Considering people were complaining that the Pfizer and Oxford vaccines were both "rushed" (they weren't, there was data available from tens of thousands of patients and compared against a control group), God knows how people will be able to defend this step to anti-vaxxers.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

Di9d no one ever take 2 different medicines for an illness?
Seems to me that if you take both and they work in different ways then you are doubling your chances that if one isn't so effective for you then the other one will be.

They aren't going to fight each other.

Yes, but usually the doctor points out if you can't take certain medicines while taking others. The reason the doctor knows, it's been tested.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

Why does it? It just offering an alternative, bearing in mind there are fewer doses the one vaccine available and if they use the available doses to give first jabs to people and there is any problem with resupply then they can use the other one as the booster. Shirley that is better for vulnerable people than having to wait too long for the second jab?
Or do you think if you've had one you shouldn't be allowed the other?
If between them they give protection that is all people should care about.

It hasn't been tested. Why are other countries not recommending this at present?

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

They clearly must be or the scientists wouldn't sit still for it. They work on different principles so far as I understand but if they both give a level of protection why not have both?
We may even find that giving one shot of both is actually beneficial.

The article I posted has scientists saying that there is no data to backup the Government's theory. Public Health England themselves say “There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the Covid-19 vaccines although studies are under way.”

For what it is worth. I don't think many (if any) will get a mixture of vaccines. I would be happy to be a guinea pig, but I wouldn't be happy seeing an elderly person (or carer of the old person) have to make an on-the-spot decision after a nurse points out that the vaccine in her hand is different from the one she had 12 weeks ago (again, not a lot of data on spacing vaccines 12 weeks apart).

Scientists are not sitting still for it, they will want to see actual data before changing a theory into a recommendation. That's how science works.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

It hasn't been tested. Why are other countries not recommending this at present?

Dr Tony Fauci head of infectious diseases USA government has said the UK is wrong to delay 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine, there is no evidence and they will not be doing it.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

Dr Tony Fauci head of infectious diseases USA government has said the UK is wrong to delay 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine, there is no evidence and they will not be doing it.

At this point, we don't know if the UK is right or wrong in theory. They are wrong, though, to recommend a different schedule of vaccine roll out that is backed by zero data. As someone else said, this strikes me as an act of sheer brilliance, or a brave cock-up that, at worst, could see us suffer longer with the pandemic than other nations who are slower at vaccinating, but are following the schedules as tested in the clinical trials.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

At this point, we don't know if the UK is right or wrong in theory. They are wrong, though, to recommend a different schedule of vaccine roll out that is backed by zero data. As someone else said, this strikes me as an act of sheer brilliance, or a brave cock-up that, at worst, could see us suffer longer with the pandemic than other nations who are slower at vaccinating, but are following the schedules as tested in the clinical trials.

Everyday I get more depressed at the way our home governments are handling this crisis. What concerns me about the change of tack with vaccines is that what they are doing is unproven, and this mass vaccination programme, the biggest the UK has ever done is going against the recommended dose regimes of the manufacturers. The experts have defended the action by saying that the data supports a 12 week interval between doses. There is some evidence that it does for the AZ vaccine, although its not what AZ recommend. There is no evidence for the Pfizer vaccine. In clinical trials 52% get a response from first dose, but Pfizer or anyone else doesn't know how long it lasts as the second jab was given at 3 weeks and showed a 95% long lasting response. The Vaccine experts went back to the Pfizer data and said one dose gives a 90% response and they are confident it will last 12 weeks ( but no evidence).

The 90% figure was obtained by extracting from the data all those patients who tested positive or showed symptoms within 10/14 days after the jab as they would not have built up an immunity. In real life what they say is rubbish because there will always be people who will get Covid shortly after having a jab.

50 million people will be vaccinated in UK, we know both vaccines work well when given at recommended dose intervals. Yet we are going to do it on a wing and a prayer with an unproven dose regime. Lord help us

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Mate, there have been NO CLINICAL TRIALS of mixing vaccines. The US Government are advising not to mix the vaccines. No other Government has suggested that the vaccines can be mixed and the UK Government are not suggesting it, but they are not advising against it. My question is, what is that based on other than "a hunch". There is no data to suggest mixing vaccines will be as effective, less effective, more effective or even counter-productive.

There are trials taking place that mix the UK vaccine with the Russian one, but that is at Phase One. Just to re-iterate, mixing the Oxford vaccine and the Pfizer one is currently not even at Phase One of trials.

I don't recall saying there were any trials. Read what I actually said and don't put your own interpretation on it to suit your own agruments.
AND PLEASE DON'T USE CAPITALS TO SPEAK TO ME, AS I'M SURE YOU ARE AWARE IT IS DEEMED AS SHOUTING ON THE INTERNET AND IS CONSIDERED OFFENSIVE.
I said that in the article ROBW posted it states that both vaccines can be used . It is not recommended but it is not impossible. I also stated that the head Medical people had approved the use of both. That is a fact.
My only other comment was on about the actions of media and news items which is my opinion and you will not change it.
So what is your problem with what I said?
Oh and I'm not your mate!

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

This is last chance saloon, they have to get this rollout right. Only 1.6 million to do in Wales, surely we could get it done in a month or so? I still can’t believe they are not doing teachers asap, keep banging on how crucial it is schools are open, but dont mention the teachers getting jabs? There’s probably not even that many over 50....

[MacAdder]

Re: Coronavirus update

This is last chance saloon, they have to get this rollout right. Only 1.6 million to do in Wales, surely we could get it done in a month or so? I still can’t believe they are not doing teachers asap, keep banging on how crucial it is schools are open, but dont mention the teachers getting jabs? There’s probably not even that many over 50....

Agree regarding teachers.
Yes the nurses, doctors, surgeons, paramedics are doing a fantastic job, but who's looking after their kids?
Key workers shirley