Scotland v Ukraine

[The Bloop]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

Having the same opinion and agreeing with someone doesn't make something 100 percent correct :thumbup:

100% correct 👍

[Des Parrot]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

Of the current squad 15 are Ukrainian based, the other 8 play in Europe. If you go back to 2020, they’ve capped another 10 players based outside of Ukraine. There’s a huge imbalance in those 18 players with 10 midfielders & only 1 keeper.

On the flip side Usyk has left to prepare to fight Joshua, so there is a precedent set.

[JumpersforGoalposts]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

Article on Shakhtar Donetsk here: https://www.theguardian.com/football...rned-to-normal

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

100% correct 👍

Indeed.

[Moodybluebird]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

There are always wars going on throughout the world. We would never play international sport if we cancelled major events because of wars and oppressive regimes.

That's pretty much as I see it too. To my knowledge, no global events were cancelled during the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iran/Iraq War, the war in Syria and many others. There is and sadly will always be armed conflict somewhere in the world at any given time. Thus, if Citizen's idea was implemented during warfare, international sport would cease, presumably forever.

He's also overlooking the fact that sport has the power to bring nations together in a way that no other medium does. The Olympics is possibly the best example I can give of this. The worst thing that could happen would be to make countries feel isolated due to non- sporting contact with other nations.

Having said all that, it is understandable that given the level of destruction and sorrow in Ukraine, some see sport and presumably other forms of entertainment as obscene. Whilst that is a valid viewpoint it is not one I share for the reasons given.

[delmbox]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

I really don't know Bob. The Ukrainian people are either under siege, fighting, or displaced refugees. How can they possibly decide and who decides for them? I don't think some Escape To Victory type match fits with the reality that they've stopped 18-60-year-old men leaving the country. If the Ukrainian team is able to play, aren't they able to fight? I'm not suggesting any of this is right I'm merely pointing out just how messy this all is and whatever is attempted to salvage this WC scenario will be the wrong decision.

I loathe the MSM and the article in The Telegraph the other day was heavily weighted against Wales. I know last time I raised this it was shouted down, but I can't see how either Scotland or Wales beating Ukraine would be viewed as anything other than akin to drop-kicking a sack of puppies into a river. It's all miserable. The whole bloody thing.

This entire World Cup is grubby, I'd love us to beat Scotland to qualify then the Welsh FA immediately announce that they're boycotting it in protest.

What's your take on Usyk leaving the warzone to prepare for his fight against Joshua CN, do you think that fight should happen? Odd one for Joshua, the optics of him knocking out Usyk (unlikely) aren't good at all

[Hilts]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

This entire World Cup is grubby, I'd love us to beat Scotland to qualify then the Welsh FA immediately announce that they're boycotting it in protest.

What's your take on Usyk leaving the warzone to prepare for his fight against Joshua CN, do you think that fight should happen? Odd one for Joshua, the optics of him knocking out Usyk (unlikely) aren't good at all

Dont worry about Joshua knocking Usyk out it isnt happening.

[delmbox]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

Dont worry about Joshua knocking Usyk out it isnt happening.

No I agree, but he's got to go in there thinking he will, weird position for him

[William Treseder]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

No I agree, but he's got to go in there thinking he will, weird position for him

One last big pay day for AJ. Shame as he’s a decent guy and good for the sport, but he’s not got a boxing brain and it has, and will cost him dear.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

This entire World Cup is grubby, I'd love us to beat Scotland to qualify then the Welsh FA immediately announce that they're boycotting it in protest.

What's your take on Usyk leaving the warzone to prepare for his fight against Joshua CN, do you think that fight should happen? Odd one for Joshua, the optics of him knocking out Usyk (unlikely) aren't good at all

I absolutely do not think that fight should happen. It doesn't sit well with me. I used to enjoy boxing but like many sports, I don't trust it anymore. This one seems ludicrous. It doesn't make sense. I'm cynical, suspicious, and see it as in bad taste.

This next paragraph is from a very personal point of view and again, is uncomfortable.

Zelensky passionately appeals for international support and decrees under martial law that 18-60yo men cannot leave the country. The inference is that they are there to defend. If I've just had a rifle shoved in my hand and I'm told to shoot the enemy, I'm not gonna be interested in football, boxing, the f*cking Olympics, etc. This view that it's good for morale doesn't cut it for me. Again, from a very personal point of view, there's no way I could ever feel comfortable leaving my family, friends, people, or country to go and play a game of football or take part in a boxing match as I would regard that as abandonment and, well, just not the done thing under the circumstances. I stress I'm not talking about patriotism here, just fairness. Your country is at war. It's being attacked, bombed, civilians are being murdered, the infrastructure is being decimated. There's the very real possibility of a nuclear attack. No argument for taking part in international sports under these circumstances makes any sense to me. There are people desperate to leave a warzone. This smacks of all people being equal but some are more equal than others.

I do understand the argument that there are always wars. I've argued on the basis there should be no participation of international sports by countries that are in conflict or supporting conflict. That's my view.

Just on the subject of Qatar. I really love your idea of qualifying and immediately boycotting. How powerful would that be? Especially from a nation that hadn't played since 1958. Now that would reduce me to tears. F*ck me I'd feel proud of Wales.

The sporting boycott of South Africa during apartheid was very powerful. It was a powerful message that said, we absolutely do not agree with the way you are treating the people of your country. Qatar, needed/needs to be given that message too. Southgate was interviewed yesterday saying 'I'm not sure what it would achieve'. That's pretty pathetic in my view. It would achieve a lot.

I also understand and acknowledge that there are several complex things going on in this discussion. Qatar and Ukraine are related and intertwined but their inclusion in the discussion is only because of the WC.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

I absolutely do not think that fight should happen. It doesn't sit well with me. I used to enjoy boxing but like many sports, I don't trust it anymore. This one seems ludicrous. It doesn't make sense. I'm cynical, suspicious, and see it as in bad taste.

This next paragraph is from a very personal point of view and again, is uncomfortable.

Zelensky passionately appeals for international support and decrees under martial law that 18-60yo men cannot leave the country. The inference is that they are there to defend. If I've just had a rifle shoved in my hand and I'm told to shoot the enemy, I'm not gonna be interested in football, boxing, the f*cking Olympics, etc. This view that it's good for morale doesn't cut it for me. Again, from a very personal point of view, there's no way I could ever feel comfortable leaving my family, friends, people, or country to go and play a game of football or take part in a boxing match as I would regard that as abandonment and, well, just not the done thing under the circumstances. I stress I'm not talking about patriotism here, just fairness. Your country is at war. It's being attacked, bombed, civilians are being murdered, the infrastructure is being decimated. There's the very real possibility of a nuclear attack. No argument for taking part in international sports under these circumstances makes any sense to me. There are people desperate to leave a warzone. This smacks of all people being equal but some are more equal than others.

I do understand the argument that there are always wars. I've argued on the basis there should be no participation of international sports by countries that are in conflict or supporting conflict. That's my view.

Just on the subject of Qatar. I really love your idea of qualifying and immediately boycotting. How powerful would that be? Especially from a nation that hadn't played since 1958. Now that would reduce me to tears. F*ck me I'd feel proud of Wales.

The sporting boycott of South Africa during apartheid was very powerful. It was a powerful message that said, we absolutely do not agree with the way you are treating the people of your country. Qatar, needed/needs to be given that message too. Southgate was interviewed yesterday saying 'I'm not sure what it would achieve'. That's pretty pathetic in my view. It would achieve a lot.

I also understand and acknowledge that there are several complex things going on in this discussion. Qatar and Ukraine are related and intertwined but their inclusion in the discussion is only because of the WC.

The sporting athletes of a country can often deliver more pride in adversity than you think!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/13/a-miracle-in-beijing-ukraine-unbowed-at-winter-paralympics

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

The sporting athletes of a country can often deliver more pride in adversity than you think!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...er-paralympics

With respect Cyril, I followed the exploits of the Ukrainian Paralympians and had already read that report and they do, indeed, inspire. I did make it very clear that I was speaking from a very personal point of view. As someone who campaigns and advocates regarding disability rights, I can categorically say that disabled people and athletes do not get the recognition or support they deserve in normal times.

Volodymyr Zelenskiy's address quoted in the article is understandable and needs to be read in context.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

When I say lose to Ukraine i mean I still want to win but if we lose so be it.

Losing to Scotland would be similar to losing to Swansea.

How? Nothing alike in my opinion.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

With respect Cyril, I followed the exploits of the Ukrainian Paralympians and had already read that report and they do, indeed, inspire. I did make it very clear that I was speaking from a very personal point of view. As someone who campaigns and advocates regarding disability rights, I can categorically say that disabled people and athletes do not get the recognition or support they deserve in normal times.

Volodymyr Zelenskiy's address quoted in the article is understandable and needs to be read in context.

Apologies if I did not make myself clear. The point I was trying to make was that in times of adversity sometimes athletes become a focal point of national pride and lift a nation as a result. Denying that opportunity or letting missiles win does just that. We've had Russian World Cups, Russian Olympics and Russian Grand Prix's. Determining great sporting events to the lowest common denominator makes Putin greater rather than smaller in my view.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Scotland v Ukraine

The sporting athletes of a country can often deliver more pride in adversity than you think!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...er-paralympics

On reflection Cyril, the quote by the Ukrainian head of the paralympian committee that states that it sets a strong message that Ukraine is still and will remain a country is a strong one. That resonates and I can acknowledge that that would mean a lot.