This Eu vaccine row

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

The DWP bases the amount you get on your application, and the length of your award on the likelihood of your condition changing. Of course, that might not always end up with a fair decision in reality.

The assessments are done by health professionals rather than civies. Not always people who specialise in the health condition that person has.

However, people who are awarded the highest level of support under PIP – and where their needs are expected to stay the same or increase – will receive an ongoing award of PIP with a light touch review every 10 years.

a lot of people applying for the modern benefits are very vulnerable , they don't get advice and support from welfare agencies, disability advice centres . Often the information the DWP bases the information on is provided by a person who is under great stress . No wonder they make mistakes .

Its no good an occupational therapist who works with disabled kids interviewing someone with manic depression

If someone has manic depression , which is a lifelong chronic decision why are people with this condition being given 3 year awards ?

If you think people with MS , Bipolar, etc are all getting long term PIP awards then I am going to have to disagree with you

[Elwood Blues]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

What's all this got to do with the EU vaccine row?

Nothing. But as often happens it got sidetracked
.
The thread had started to wander off into a leave/remain and tory/labour direction and made a reply to a post fro Sludge that was only meant to get a single response from Sludge.

Then we got carried away.......

[life on mars]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Whats antisemitism got to do with our relationship with the EU ?

Brexit divided the country , I think it was an insane decision but there you go

When you leave your wife you don't expect her to be nice to you

This is just the start

The utter nonsense of an island that has a border in its top corner being at the front of this mess is exactly why we should have stayed in the EU in the first place

But there you go , those that have voted for a free United Kingdom can point out all these faults and what a bully boy Europe is all day , it doesn't matter

In 20 years we may have some idea of how things stand but the portent is a shitstorm without us in there , the views of economic analysts far more in touch than most of us on here .

We'll be fine dont , worry upward and onward .

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

We'll be fine dont , worry upward and onward .

There is no point in telling slduge that.
The truth as I see it from his posts is that he wants it to be a shitstorm just to prove himself right. He has convinced himself of it and is determined that it will be so.
Which implies to me that he doesn't actually give a ashit about the country doing well, he wants it to fail so he can tell everyone he was right.

[Elwood Blues]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

i see I didn't misjudge you at all.

The EU have got this wrong, I think almost everyone agrees on it, but it's interesting to see Leave voters and/or supporters descending on this one thread like hungry pigs around a trough - it rather tends to support the notion that there's been little or nothing before now to get their teeth into.

Having made the mistake of helping this thread off track by a good discussion with Sludge about DLA/PIP, I will try not to do the same again. I will therefore not discuss Leave voters or Remain voters or pigs in a trough or gammon and concentrate on replying to your last sentence

There may have been little or nothing for leave supporter to get their teeth into (in the last month possibly correct, in the last 4 years questionable but that's another thread, let's not get side tracked again! )

But this comedy of errors was a Doozie and has turned into the gift that kept giving.

First the EU as I pointed out at the start seemed to suggest that Astra Zeneca should fulfill the contract with them at the expense of us giving them some of our vaccines so that the UK Astra Zeneca contract won't be fulfilled on time even though we signed ours three months before the EU finally got round to signing one!!

Then the Germans suddenly seem to find that the Astra Zeneca vaccine won't be effective on under 65's and say they won't give it to them, followed Macron sneering that it will have very little effect on the over 65's

Now, I suppose there is still a chance that they may be right, but several eminent scientists in this country and our regulatory authority disagree with them, and perhaps more important Europe's own medical regulatory authority also seems to think they are wrong.

Then comes the real killer. They threaten to invoke a part of the Northern Ireland protocol, section 16 (which I suspect was probably there in times of dire emergency), which restrict the free movement of medical vaccines and therefore go against the Belfast agreement which not long ago the EU seemed to regard as sacrosanct.

Worse than this they don't even appear to have consulted their own member state who are directly involved. Ireland would have been particularly affected if it had got to the stage where the UK decided to take reprisals and invoked section 16 themselves on some other goods.


Even worse they then seem to try to ay it was a "bureaucratic mistake" when such a decision should surely be taken at the very highest level of the commission i.e by Ursula Von der Leyen and then only I would have though after consultation with all member states and certainly with Ireland.

Vindictive, bungling, bullying ,spiteful, inefficient, arrogant are all words with are apt here

I'm sure I have missed somethings they said as well bul
t let's not overegg the pudding

Finally by even suggesting that section 16 can be invoked at the drop of a hat, apparently without much discussion, they have may have made it easier for Britain to use or threaten to use it at some time in the future.

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Having made the mistake of helping this thread off track by a good discussion with Sludge about DLA/PIP, I will try not to do the same again. I will therefore not discuss Leave voters or Remain voters or pigs in a trough or gammon and concentrate on replying to your last sentence

There may have been little or nothing for leave supporter to get their teeth into (in the last month possibly correct, in the last 4 years questionable but that's another thread, let's not get side tracked again! )

But this comedy of errors was a Doozie and has turned into the gift that kept giving.

First the EU as I pointed out at the start seemed to suggest that Astra Zeneca should fulfill the contract with them at the expense of us giving them some of our vaccines so that the UK Astra Zeneca contract won't be fulfilled on time even though we signed ours three months before the EU finally got round to signing one!!

Then the Germans suddenly seem to find that the Astra Zeneca vaccine won't be effective on under 65's and say they won't give it to them, followed Macron sneering that it will have very little effect on the over 65's

Now, I suppose there is still a chance that they may be right, but several eminent scientists in this country and our regulatory authority disagree with them, and perhaps more important Europe's own medical regulatory authority also seems to think they are wrong.

Then comes the real killer. They threaten to invoke a part of the Northern Ireland protocol, section 16 (which I suspect was probably there in times of dire emergency), which restrict the free movement of medical vaccines and therefore go against the Belfast agreement which not long ago the EU seemed to regard as sacrosanct.

Worse than this they don't even appear to have consulted their own member state who are directly involved. Ireland would have been particularly affected if it had got to the stage where the UK decided to take reprisals and invoked section 16 themselves on some other goods.


Even worse they then seem to try to ay it was a "bureaucratic mistake" when such a decision should surely be taken at the very highest level of the commission i.e by Ursula Von der Leyen and then only I would have though after consultation with all member states and certainly with Ireland.

Vindictive, bungling, bullying ,spiteful, inefficient, arrogant are all words with are apt here

I'm sure I have missed somethings they said as well bul
t let's not overegg the pudding

Finally by even suggesting that section 16 can be invoked at the drop of a hat, apparently without much discussion, they have may have made it easier for Britain to use or threaten to use it at some time in the future.

Other than that though they're doing quite well.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

There is no denying this isn’t the best advert for brexit ever, it has been a complete cock up of massive proportions.

I still think in the long run remain at the time was the right decision but at least we’ve finally got something decent out of it.

I wonder if we’d have gone along with the EU vaccination plan if we were still in?

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

There is no denying this isn’t the best advert for brexit ever, it has been a complete cock up of massive proportions.

I still think in the long run remain at the time was the right decision but at least we’ve finally got something decent out of it.

I wonder if we’d have gone along with the EU vaccination plan if we were still in?

I'm not sure we'd have had much choice. I know Germany did a separate deal with some company but they did it in secret and only 'admitted' to it when someone squealed (lol).
The one part of all of it that definitely did not surprise me was Macron slagging off the Astrazenica vaccine and the UK in General, but to be fair, most of that was for his own domestic audience, and so too much store should not be put by it.
After all he has an election coming up and blaming the UK for everything is a tried and tested vote winner for any would-be french President.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Hungary have gone alone so I’m not sure we wouldn’t have had a choice, but I assume we would have gone with it.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

There is no point in telling slduge that.
The truth as I see it from his posts is that he wants it to be a shitstorm just to prove himself right. He has convinced himself of it and is determined that it will be so.
Which implies to me that he doesn't actually give a ashit about the country doing well, he wants it to fail so he can tell everyone he was right.

The truth , as you see it ?

Caligula a mate of yours is he ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

I'm not sure we'd have had much choice. I know Germany did a separate deal with some company but they did it in secret and only 'admitted' to it when someone squealed (lol).
The one part of all of it that definitely did not surprise me was Macron slagging off the Astrazenica vaccine and the UK in General, but to be fair, most of that was for his own domestic audience, and so too much store should not be put by it.
After all he has an election coming up and blaming the UK for everything is a tried and tested vote winner for any would-be french President.

Hes not xenophobic, honestly

[Elwood Blues]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Hungary have gone alone so I’m not sure we wouldn’t have had a choice, but I assume we would have gone with it.

I saw somewhere ( can't remember where as I have read various articles on this recently) that EU countries can order vaccines, but not from the firms who are part of the main EU vaccine contract)

So Hungary have ordered I think it was 2,000,000 of the Sputnik vaccine from Russia.

I suspect (but not certain) that we were able to go it alone as we were leaving. I think the EU asked us to join in rather than put pressure on us to join in as they would if we hade still been a full member. I know Germany and a couple of other countries were thinking of going it alone but then a decision was made (not sure if by the Commission or by the 27 leaders) that there would be one EU contract for every one (with the exception mentioned above)

[Elwood Blues]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Other than that though they're doing quite well.

" Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the theatre"

[Vindec]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

I saw somewhere ( can't remember where as I have read various articles on this recently) that EU countries can order vaccines, but not from the firms who are part of the main EU vaccine contract)

So Hungary have ordered I think it was 2,000,000 of the Sputnik vaccine from Russia.

I suspect (but not certain) that we were able to go it alone as we were leaving. I think the EU asked us to join in rather than put pressure on us to join in as they would if we hade still been a full member. I know Germany and a couple of other countries were thinking of going it alone but then a decision was made (not sure if by the Commission or by the 27 leaders) that there would be one EU contract for every one (with the exception mentioned above)

I think Germany and the Netherlands had decided to go it alone and even had contracts for the supply of vaccines which they then had to cancel under pressure from the EU. There followed a series of arguments between the more prosperous companies in the EU and the smaller countries who didn't want the EU to invest in manufacturing plants that would only benefit the EU countries that were the most wealthy. By the time the arguments ceased the EU were months behind the UK in signing contracts.

Sadly this is one of the perennial problems of the EU where there are endless arguments caused by self interest.

[xsnaggle]

Re: This Eu vaccine row

Hes not xenophobic, honestly

xenophobia has nothing to do witth the man's post or my response. It's an idiotic comment, but given your apparent distain for everything British it's not surprising.

Or do you really honestly hope that Brexit will be a success?