40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Neither Hamas nor the Israeli government are known for their humanitarianism and compassion for their fellow man of a different religious persuasion. No irony is involved.

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

Are you incapable of reading what I wrote? Are you really that stupid to fabricate straw man arguments and to misrepresent my comments to fit your own myopic religious agenda?

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Are you incapable of reading what I wrote? Are you really that stupid to fabricate straw man arguments and to misrepresent my comments to fit your own myopic religious agenda?

My comment has NOTHING to do with religion. Simply ACTUAL History.

Hammas, Iran, to name a couple have publicly announced their desire to wipe out an entire nation.
When have Israel done likewise?

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

So Hamas (meaning violence) exists to destroy as many Jews as possible (a 1930's narritive) ....and you saw "Israel and USA flags doctored with swastikas" - could anything be more ironic?

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

Hamas is clearly a violent organisation through the actions of its military wing that committed murder and atrocities on 7 October (although not all the atrocities claimed by the Israeli government after the attack - they made some up). Its various civil organisations are also intolerant of dissent. But the name Hamas does not mean violence, as you surely know.

Hamas is an acronym of the Arabic phrase حركة المقاومة الإسلامية or Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement". This acronym, HMS, was later glossed in the Hamas Covenan by the Arabic word ḥamās (حماس) which itself means "zeal", "strength", or "bravery".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Hamas has also changed its charter from the 1988 one you appear to be quoting to a new one in 2017 that explicitly claimed its enemy is Zionism not Jews and about the same time its leaders accepted the idea of a two state solution and made peace approaches to the (then) Netanyahu government that were ignored.

Most western commentators and governments don't believe the stated intention of the 2017 Charter. I don't think it matters much whether the words are believed or not. It is words and actions together that count. Hamas is violent, Islamist, Israeli-sponsored and funded in its early days (to undermine Fatah) and a part of the Palestinian resistance. it has support from a large section of the Palestinian people in Gaza (some on the West Bank) who see no other way forward as every peaceful route has been violently crushed by Israel or demonised as anti semitic by Israel's allies. But there are also large parts of the Palestinian people in Gaza, the West Bank, Israel and the diaspora who want a different future and a new leadership (not the Palestinian Authority - sub contractors to the Israeli state in the minds of most in the region). Israel has many of the potential alternative leaders in its gaols - many of them in administrative detention - no charge, no trial, no conviction, even by the apartheid military courts. An alternative to Hamas and the PA is possible - but Israel would have to help make that happen. No sign of that.

And on Israel's 'publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation' you must be trying really hard not to hear or read that if you have missed it. The whole Greater Israel project is about ethnically cleansing the Palestinian population and it has driven Israeli state policy from 1948 - and more explicitly since 1967. The daily persecution of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, the 16 year siege of Gaza, the theft of land and homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the periodic 'cutting the grass' purges of Palestinians in Gaza, the murders and destruction carried out by armed settlers in the West Bank (more recently supported by the IDF), the racist and genocidal statements of government ministers in the past year (mainly the fascist ones, but also from within Likud), the litany of war crimes against Palestinian civilians which have ramped up massively since 7 October.

There is also the open discussion amongst Cabinet members about ways to clear Gaza of all Palestinians (and expel them to Jordan, Egypt or elsewhere) and the stated intention (carried through in practice with just a dribble of aid allowed) to deny Gazans power, water, food or sanitation. Many international lawyers believe that Israel has long passed the point where its actions constitute genocide (definition: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group) and that is exactly what you claim not to see from Israel. Your form of Christian Zionism must be blind as well as depraved.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

My comment has NOTHING to do with religion. Simply ACTUAL History.

Hammas, Iran, to name a couple have publicly announced their desire to wipe out an entire nation.
When have Israel done likewise?

You carry on having your own unilateral argument with yourself. I'll stick to debating with people who clearly see wlth the wrong doing on both sides. As usual, I find it it impossible to have a dialogue with you as you are unbelievable myopic and dogmatic - and you seem to assign sentiments not expressed by posters in the first place.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Hamas is clearly a violent organisation through the actions of its military wing that committed murder and atrocities on 7 October (although not all the atrocities claimed by the Israeli government after the attack - they made some up). Its various civil organisations are also intolerant of dissent. But the name Hamas does not mean violence, as you surely know.

Hamas is an acronym of the Arabic phrase حركة المقاومة الإسلامية or Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement". This acronym, HMS, was later glossed in the Hamas Covenan by the Arabic word ḥamās (حماس) which itself means "zeal", "strength", or "bravery".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Hamas has also changed its charter from the 1988 one you appear to be quoting to a new one in 2017 that explicitly claimed its enemy is Zionism not Jews and about the same time its leaders accepted the idea of a two state solution and made peace approaches to the (then) Netanyahu government that were ignored.

Most western commentators and governments don't believe the stated intention of the 2017 Charter. I don't think it matters much whether the words are believed or not. It is words and actions together that count. Hamas is violent, Islamist, Israeli-sponsored and funded in its early days (to undermine Fatah) and a part of the Palestinian resistance. it has support from a large section of the Palestinian people in Gaza (some on the West Bank) who see no other way forward as every peaceful route has been violently crushed by Israel or demonised as anti semitic by Israel's allies. But there are also large parts of the Palestinian people in Gaza, the West Bank, Israel and the diaspora who want a different future and a new leadership (not the Palestinian Authority - sub contractors to the Israeli state in the minds of most in the region). Israel has many of the potential alternative leaders in its gaols - many of them in administrative detention - no charge, no trial, no conviction, even by the apartheid military courts. An alternative to Hamas and the PA is possible - but Israel would have to help make that happen. No sign of that.

And on Israel's 'publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation' you must be trying really hard not to hear or read that if you have missed it. The whole Greater Israel project is about ethnically cleansing the Palestinian population and it has driven Israeli state policy from 1948 - and more explicitly since 1967. The daily persecution of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, the 16 year siege of Gaza, the theft of land and homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the periodic 'cutting the grass' purges of Palestinians in Gaza, the murders and destruction carried out by armed settlers in the West Bank (more recently supported by the IDF), the racist and genocidal statements of government ministers in the past year (mainly the fascist ones, but also from within Likud), the litany of war crimes against Palestinian civilians which have ramped up massively since 7 October.

There is also the open discussion amongst Cabinet members about ways to clear Gaza of all Palestinians (and expel them to Jordan, Egypt or elsewhere) and the stated intention (carried through in practice with just a dribble of aid allowed) to deny Gazans power, water, food or sanitation. Many international lawyers believe that Israel has long passed the point where its actions constitute genocide (definition: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group) and that is exactly what you claim not to see from Israel. Your form of Christian Zionism must be blind as well as depraved.

So you have a total of ZERO declarations from Israel to compare with the many public declarations in history against Israel - noted.
As for the word Hamas being nothing to do with violence, then here is the Hebrew from Genesis 6:11, penned at least 3000 years before the group 'Hamas' were even born:-

HAMAS3.jpg

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

Publicly announced or not - they’re going a pretty good job of eradicating an entire nation.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You carry on having your own unilateral argument with yourself. I'll stick to debating with people who clearly see wlth the wrong doing on both sides. As usual, I find it it impossible to have a dialogue with you as you are unbelievable myopic and dogmatic - and you seem to assign sentiments not expressed by posters in the first place.

Yes, I deal in facts. You lack or deny them. So come back when you have done some proper research.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

As bad as each other.

https://time.com/6334812/israeli-minister-nuclear-bomb-gaza-condemnations/

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Publicly announced or not - they’re going a pretty good job of eradicating an entire nation.

Thank's for admitting to the fact that Israel has stated no desire to delete an entire nation. Their current determination to remove the snakes head is purely to guarantee the future safety of their people so October 7th cannot be repeated.
Hamas has spent decades (tunnels/ placement of military HQ's) making sure Israels task is messy and prone to maximum Palenstinian casualties to produce the worldwide response they are getting now, not least from many here in this discussion.
Palenstine will survive despite their calous treatment under Hamas, I pray that Hamas will not survive, and that they will get a government that will enable them to prosper and live in peace.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

Thank's for admitting to the fact that Israel has stated no desire to delete an entire nation. Their current determination to remove the snakes head is purely to guarantee the future safety of their people so October 7th cannot be repeated.
Hamas has spent decades (tunnels/ placement of military HQ's) making sure Israels task is messy and prone to maximum Palenstinian casualties to produce the worldwide response they are getting now, not least from many here in this discussion.
Palenstine will survive despite their calous treatment under Hamas, I pray that Hamas will not survive, and that they will get a government that will enable them to prosper and live in peace.

Your dogmatic views are toxic.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

As bad as each other.

https://time.com/6334812/israeli-min...condemnations/

And here's the context (**below) - so NOT a threat from the leader of Israel, unlike for example of the leader of Iran towards Israel.

**At Monday’s long-planned opening of a United Nations conference whose goal is to establish a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East, many ambassadors expressed condemnations and criticisms of comments by Israel’s Heritage Minister Amihai Eliyahu, who later called his remarks in a radio interview Sunday “metaphorical.” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu quickly disavowed the comments and suspended him from cabinet meetings.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

Thank's for admitting to the fact that Israel has stated no desire to delete an entire nation. Their current determination to remove the snakes head is purely to guarantee the future safety of their people so October 7th cannot be repeated.
Hamas has spent decades (tunnels/ placement of military HQ's) making sure Israels task is messy and prone to maximum Palenstinian casualties to produce the worldwide response they are getting now, not least from many here in this discussion.
Palenstine will survive despite their calous treatment under Hamas, I pray that Hamas will not survive, and that they will get a government that will enable them to prosper and live in peace.

And I haven’t admitted to anything- read my post again.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Yes, I deal in facts. You lack or deny them. So come back when you have done some proper research.

I haven't denied a single thing, you insufferable idiot. You are obviously incapable of reading properly.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

And here's the context (**below) - so NOT a threat from the leader of Israel, unlike for example of the leader of Iran towards Israel.

**At Monday’s long-planned opening of a United Nations conference whose goal is to establish a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East, many ambassadors expressed condemnations and criticisms of comments by Israel’s Heritage Minister Amihai Eliyahu, who later called his remarks in a radio interview Sunday “metaphorical.” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu quickly disavowed the comments and suspended him from cabinet meetings.

As I said, as bad as each other.