40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

If something evil happens its down to the devil or humans

If something great happens it's God's work or God's will

However God is said to be omnipotent.....all powerful......and omnipresent......everywhere , all the time ?

So if he was all powerful he could easily stop nasty things

But he doesn't

So he either isn't as great and kind a bloke as Christians believe ....or he doesn't exist

[pipster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

If something evil happens its down to the devil or humans

If something great happens it's God's work or God's will

However God is said to be omnipotent.....all powerful......and omnipresent......everywhere , all the time ?

So if he was all powerful he could easily stop nasty things

But he doesn't

So he either isn't as great and kind a bloke as Christians believe ....or he doesn't exist

A bit presumptuous and sexist - God could be a women or may want to be known as one. God could be trans - he does work in mysterious ways after all..

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

If something evil happens its down to the devil or humans

If something great happens it's God's work or God's will

However God is said to be omnipotent.....all powerful......and omnipresent......everywhere , all the time ?

So if he was all powerful he could easily stop nasty things

But he doesn't

So he either isn't as great and kind a bloke as Christians believe ....or he doesn't exist

The most powerful thing we can experience is love, look how many songs, works of art and literature have been produced because of it, as the Beatles reminded us.....all you need is love.

Love must involve choice, otherwise it's invalidated. Would any of us want to learn that someone's affection for us had only existed because they were threatened to act that way towards us?

Therefore God must inform us of our position, and then allow us to choose. He must then allow the chips to fall where they may. He and we must live with the consequences, eternally

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

If something evil happens its down to the devil or humans

If something great happens it's God's work or God's will

However God is said to be omnipotent.....all powerful......and omnipresent......everywhere , all the time ?

So if he was all powerful he could easily stop nasty things

But he doesn't

So he either isn't as great and kind a bloke as Christians believe ....or he doesn't exist

The most powerful thing we can experience is love, look how many songs, works of art and literature have been produced because of it, as the Beatles reminded us.....all you need is love.

Love must involve choice, otherwise it's invalidated. Would any of us want to learn that someone's affection for us had only existed because they were threatened to act that way towards us?

Therefore God must inform us of our position, and then allow us to choose. He must then allow the chips to fall where they may. He and we must live with the consequences, eternally

Love god or he sends you to hell. Nice one.

[jeepster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Love god or he sends you to hell. Nice one.

Sounds like the IDF spoke person

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Love god or he sends you to hell. Nice one.

Not a perfect analogy I know because I believe a loving God would never give up on someone whilst they are still alive, but suppose you said to someone who loves you, “I don't love you at all, in fact I hate you”, why on earth would you expect to spend eternity (or any time) with them?! On the contrary you have self-selected separation, which is what hell is in this context.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Not a perfect analogy I know because I believe a loving God would never give up on someone whilst they are still alive, but suppose you said to someone who loves you, “I don't love you at all, in fact I hate you”, why on earth would you expect to spend eternity (or any time) with them?! On the contrary you have self-selected separation, which is what hell is in this context.

It's not an analogy at all. And your analogy is disingenuous as 'someone' is not the same as one's supposed loving and forgiving creator.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Another London demonstration tomorrow against the genocide in Gaza - and a lot of local/regional ones too.

jewish bloc 9 Dec demo.jpg

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

The most powerful thing we can experience is love, look how many songs, works of art and literature have been produced because of it, as the Beatles reminded us.....all you need is love.

Love must involve choice, otherwise it's invalidated. Would any of us want to learn that someone's affection for us had only existed because they were threatened to act that way towards us?

Therefore God must inform us of our position, and then allow us to choose. He must then allow the chips to fall where they may. He and we must live with the consequences, eternally

So you give God a free pass then - he/she is offering love on a very conditional basis surely?

Going back to the subject of this thread, are you seriously suggesting that one of the parties involved is acting out of love for God and the other isn’t?

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

So you give God a free pass then - he/she is offering love on a very conditional basis surely?

Going back to the subject of this thread, are you seriously suggesting that one of the parties involved is acting out of love for God and the other isn’t?

In reverse order; one of the parties involved launched a premeditated and heartless attack which was driven by *evil married to the worst anti-semitic agenda of our generation. Hamas knew 100% what the response would be, yet it still wanted it's day in the headlines despite the consequences. The only love that Israel is currently concerned about is a love for it's citizens who they pledged to protect and guarantee that protection so they can live in safety, Israel being a country the size of Wales surrounded by sworn enemies for most of it's recent and past history.

* While this is part of their agenda to reverse the events of 1947/48, let's not forget the diagnosis of the human heart - "For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery....". While you or I may not have actual blood on our hands, neither of us along with everyone else can't say that we've not wanted certain people dead, and by God's standard that makes us all guilty.

Back with God, you and I are City fans who go back well over half a Century, so we've both lived through more than enough evidence to see the bigger picture here. God isn't offering love, He is Love. What He is offering is forgiveness and a life with real purpose and a real prospect; and to people like myself who certainly don't deserve any of it.
No doubt you are a man who believes in justice, do you think it is right that the likes of Saville, Hitler & West should receive no greater punishment than minor criminals who may have only stolen because they were hungry?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

In reverse order; one of the parties involved launched a premeditated and heartless attack which was driven by *evil married to the worst anti-semitic agenda of our generation. Hamas knew 100% what the response would be, yet it still wanted it's day in the headlines despite the consequences. The only love that Israel is currently concerned about is a love for it's citizens who they pledged to protect and guarantee that protection so they can live in safety, Israel being a country the size of Wales surrounded by sworn enemies for most of it's recent and past history.

* While this is part of their agenda to reverse the events of 1947/48, let's not forget the diagnosis of the human heart - "For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery....". While you or I may not have actual blood on our hands, neither of us along with everyone else can't say that we've not wanted certain people dead, and by God's standard that makes us all guilty.

Back with God, you and I are City fans who go back well over half a Century, so we've both lived through more than enough evidence to see the bigger picture here. God isn't offering love, He is Love. What He is offering is forgiveness and a life with real purpose and a real prospect; and to people like myself who certainly don't deserve any of it.
No doubt you are a man who believes in justice, do you think it is right that the likes of Saville, Hitler & West should receive no greater punishment than minor criminals who may have only stolen because they were hungry?

Sorry, I can't reconcile your "He is love" with the notion of a vengeful God we see in the Old Testament.

To try to answer your point about those awful men you mention, since October 7 I've been struck by how Israel has made so much of the way Hamas killed on that day. Of course, the methods used were deliberately bloodthirsty, but do the law abiding people in Gaza take some sort of consolation in the notion that the thousands more killed by Israeli forces perished in a more humane way? I wouldn't, I would still mourn the friends and family members I'd lost and I do not accept that those for whom the same happened to on the Israeli side are, somehow, more entitled to mourn.

Thousands have died on both sides and as I said weeks ago, I see both sides as being as bad as each other. In the days following October 7, we heard how the Israeli authorities were advising people living in Gaza to head south because they would be safer there. Here was an example of Israel showing a moral superiority to Hamas it seemed, but now we see stories like these

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67664804

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq00n5lccrc&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/israel-says-it-will-increase-military-offensive-in-southern-gaza

that, once again, suggest that there are elements within this Israeli Government in particular, who are no better than those they are determined to wipe off the face of the earth.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sorry, I can't reconcile your "He is love" with the notion of a vengeful God we see in the Old Testament.

To try to answer your point about those awful men you mention, since October 7 I've been struck by how Israel has made so much of the way Hamas killed on that day. Of course, the methods used were deliberately bloodthirsty, but do the law abiding people in Gaza take some sort of consolation in the notion that the thousands more killed by Israeli forces perished in a more humane way? I wouldn't, I would still mourn the friends and family members I'd lost and I do not accept that those for whom the same happened to on the Israeli side are, somehow, more entitled to mourn.

Thousands have died on both sides and as I said weeks ago, I see both sides as being as bad as each other. In the days following October 7, we heard how the Israeli authorities were advising people living in Gaza to head south because they would be safer there. Here was an example of Israel showing a moral superiority to Hamas it seemed, but now we see stories like these

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67664804

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq00n5lccrc&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/israel-says-it-will-increase-military-offensive-in-southern-gaza

that, once again, suggest that there are elements within this Israeli Government in particular, who are no better than those they are determined to wipe off the face of the earth.

On this last point re 'elements within the Israeli Government' then I completely agree and sadly for ANY democratic government there would be similar unsavoury elements because of the human heart issue I raised above; that problem is universal and the current scrutiny of our own government and other enquiries since 2020 is testimony to such corruption.

Which leaves us with the corrupt human heart and the God of the Bible, who is commonly misunderstood in not only the OT but the NT too; let's not forget that in a coming day every element will burn up (2 Peter 3:10) and this physical universe will be no more and replaced with a new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unrepentant individuals will perish in the lake of fire - all these are NT references, and far more violent then any OT scenario, or Millwall

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sorry, I can't reconcile your "He is love" with the notion of a vengeful God we see in the Old Testament.

To try to answer your point about those awful men you mention, since October 7 I've been struck by how Israel has made so much of the way Hamas killed on that day. Of course, the methods used were deliberately bloodthirsty, but do the law abiding people in Gaza take some sort of consolation in the notion that the thousands more killed by Israeli forces perished in a more humane way? I wouldn't, I would still mourn the friends and family members I'd lost and I do not accept that those for whom the same happened to on the Israeli side are, somehow, more entitled to mourn.

Thousands have died on both sides and as I said weeks ago, I see both sides as being as bad as each other. In the days following October 7, we heard how the Israeli authorities were advising people living in Gaza to head south because they would be safer there. Here was an example of Israel showing a moral superiority to Hamas it seemed, but now we see stories like these

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67664804

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq00n5lccrc&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/israel-says-it-will-increase-military-offensive-in-southern-gaza

that, once again, suggest that there are elements within this Israeli Government in particular, who are no better than those they are determined to wipe off the face of the earth.

Somewhere in the bible it must surely say 'twenty eyes for an eye'?

The State of Israel has used the total and unconditional support of Christian Zionists like Truthpaste (leading to all the USA money, arms, intelligence and Security Council vetos) to enable 75 years of ethnic cleansing and daily persecution.

The conflict (David v Goliath - and the Israelis are not David) didn't start on 7 October - even if that was one of the many low points for death and atrocities.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

It's not an analogy at all. And your analogy is disingenuous as 'someone' is not the same as one's supposed loving and forgiving creator.

I agree in as much it is impossible to compare human love with God's love. If you told your girl friend who is in love with you that actually you hate her I would suggest it would be highly unlikely that she would keep loving you for as long as you live! You initiated the inevitable separation, yes? The girlfriend goes her own way and with time will forget all about you.

God never gives up loving you as long as you are alive, that's the difference.

[pipster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Does God exist and can you prove it ?
Where do I go to see or speak to God ?
If God does exist why does God give children cancer ?