Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

Probably closer to what I actually meant. They will assume its everyone else because they don't feel sick.

Things would be very different if symptoms included a rash or spots or something.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

It won't be "too early" for a lot of folks going stir crazy.

This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?

The majority of people can manage the mental stress of staying in their homes if it means 10s of thousands of lives are saved. Only 6 months ago people were saying we won 2 world wars so brexit is easy now those same people are finding it too hard to stay at home and watch tv when it is literally saving lives.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?

The majority of people can manage the mental stress of staying in their homes if it means 10s of thousands of lives are saved. Only 6 months ago people were saying we won 2 world wars so brexit is easy now those same people are finding it too hard to stay at home and watch tv when it is literally saving lives.

I didn't say that, you have just changed it, as you have changed other peoples posts inthe past, to fit your answer.
Your "interpretation" of what I posted implies I am saying "who Cares" and it is not what I said at all.
Basically lying again.
As I've said before, you're a waste of oxygen

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Things would be very different if symptoms included a rash or spots or something.

Absolutely, if people could see it then they would believe, a bit like Doubting Thomas.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I didn't say that, you have just changed it, as you have changed other peoples posts inthe past, to fit your answer.
Your "interpretation" of what I posted implies I am saying "who Cares" and it is not what I said at all.
Basically lying again.
As I've said before, you're a waste of oxygen

Your post is on this page I haven't changed anything.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Things would be very different if symptoms included a rash or spots or something.

Even then there would be an incubation period where it would be passed on before any symptoms show.

There needed to be clear rules a lot earlier than we got them.

We are ****ing it up again by using our own tracing app too. I wish it was non tory government doing this because then at least they'd be properly held to account by the media.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Can you provide the footage of Johnson standing in front of cameras and saying so more than once?

Are you saying you don't believe herd immunity was ever the government's plan?

[tell it like it is]

Re: Coronavirus update

Are you saying you don't believe herd immunity was ever the government's plan?

I'm saying he made a specific claim...

Was it discussed internally, almost certainly. Plan? Doubt it.

[tell it like it is]

Re: Coronavirus update

Welsh press release pointing out any lockdown release announcement applies to England only.

That'll be fun and not clear chaos.

From the release...

"Any decisions to ease restrictions in Wales will be announced by the Welsh Fist Minister"

I didn't know Sludge was running Wales?

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I'm saying he made a specific claim...

Was it discussed internally, almost certainly. Plan? Doubt it.

It was announced as the actual plan early on, there are numerous sources on this too. It was abandoned almost immediately after much criticism.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

This what Croesy said I wrote:.......Your post is on this page I haven't changed anything. Where?

This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?

this doesn't even make sense, it is not a proper english!

Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post It won't be "too early" for a lot of folks going stir crazy.


Croesy: This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?

croesy lying again. Not only has he changed the meaning of the statement I made but he also, in very bad english, sought to imply that I was saying I don't care.
A liar and attempting to blackne someones character too. Par for the course with croesy.

You're a keyboard warrier and as I said, a waste of oxygen

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

Are you saying you don't believe herd immunity was ever the government's plan?

I found this article a reasoned argument that the government and scientists were more frightened of a 2nd wave than the first and that "herd immunity" was part of the plan but not just the plan to "flatten the curve" of the first wave.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned

However to try and argue that it never was part of any plan is fanciful. It is also true that we were following an almost unique path by abandoning test and trace early and only locking down much later than others because of the original strategy as this article at the time points out.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/why-is-the-government-relying-on-nudge-theory-to-tackle-coronavirus

This obviously changed after the Imperial College analysis was given of following that path. We have been playing catch up ever since. The Politicians who are responsible for determining this was the right original path should be held to account with suitable transparency around the adequacy of scientific advice and options they received and choices made on the back of them.

Personally I have some sympathy for the decision makers at the time, but less sympathy if their subsequent actions were not to take responsibility for difficult decisions by either rewriting that history, covering up or chucking their scientific advisers under the bus.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

Yeah, I'm aware of Vallance but that wasn't the claim made.

Disclaimer: I haven't dived into the links so posted for those with bit more time to have a look at as part of the discussion - there may be more to the story.

Professor Graham Medley, who leads the Government’s disease modelling team, tells BBC Newsnight that “we are going to have to generate what is called herd immunity… and the only way of developing that in the absence of vaccination is for the majority of the population to become infected”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p086hjgc

Dr David Halpern, the head of the Number 10 ‘nudge unit’, tells the BBC that “there is going to be a point, assuming the epidemic flows and grows as we think it probably will do, where you’ll want to cocoon, you’ll want to protect those at-risk group so that they basically don’t catch the disease and by the time they come out of their cocooning herd immunity has been achieved in the rest of the population”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/absolutely-wrong-how-uk-coronavirus-test-strategy-unravelled

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

Reading back through the thread, this seems to be a case of whether any member of the UK government seriously used term "herd immunity" or whether it was just those advising the government.

One of my frustrations is that we don't know what "the science" is and where "the science" stops and where government decisions begin despite UK government and Senedd ensuring people know they've "followed the science at all times".

If those justifying their actions are saying they're following "the science" at all times and previously the scientists have discussed herd immunity then can we take it that this was once part of the government response? It does feel that the media (currently happening at England level) and scientists (being prepared for future in all nations) are about to be blamed for any negative feeling towards government decisions. Meanwhile, death rates exceed benchmark for success set out by government by 10,000 and growing each day.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Reading back through the thread, this seems to be a case of whether any member of the UK government seriously used term "herd immunity" or whether it was just those advising the government.

One of my frustrations is that we don't know what "the science" is and where "the science" stops and where government decisions begin despite UK government and Senedd ensuring people know they've "followed the science at all times".

If those justifying their actions are saying they're following "the science" at all times and previously the scientists have discussed herd immunity then can we take it that this was once part of the government response? It does feel that the media (currently happening at England level) and scientists (being prepared for future in all nations) are about to be blamed for any negative feeling towards government decisions. Meanwhile, death rates exceed benchmark for success set out by government by 10,000 and growing each day.

Good post. I'm guessing here, but if "the science" were urging that we go for a herd immunity approach and the Government defied them from the start by insisting that was not on, I think we would have heard about it somehow by now. I thought it had been more or less accepted that it was the Jenkinson report saying as many as half a million could die in the U.K. that convinced the Government not to adopt a herd immunity approach?