Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[life on mars]

Re: Coronavirus update

The Pharmaceutical Industry is a global success story for capitalism. Drug manufacture is complex and depends on many industries pulling together..manufacturers of pharmaceutical quality glass, pharmaceutical quantity rubber stoppers and seals, excipient manufacturers etc. Once politicians interfere the thing can fall apart.

Dave Keating is right in many of his comments but he brushes over some important facts:

The UK signed a contract with AZ in English Law based on supply of fixed quantities of product. The EU contract was in Belgium Law and based on best efforts of each party. Second the EU wanted product manufactured within the block if facilities existed.

It's all come back to haunt them and they seem willing to disrupt legitimate supply to other countries in order to get supply. A sad tale for everyone

Think I read somewhere that Labour were keen to break the big pharma global control up

[Rjk]

Re: Coronavirus update

I am shocked at there behaviour though the holding back of the vaccine shipment in Italy on what moral ground can they do that ,this saves life's, this is both embarrassing and revealing of their nasty controlling side , the fact they were advising folk not to rush and take the Astazenca Vaccine over a certain age and now complain they cant get enough of it all a smokescreen to cloud the fact the fecked up , Merkel is in big trouble with all this as well .

haven't there been something like twice as many deaths per capita here than in Germany?
yet some people seem to think Merkel is in trouble (how many times have we heard that over the years?) and Boris Johnson is doing a fantastic job?

[life on mars]

Re: Coronavirus update

All about greed and capitalism according to the sainted Johnson. I wonder how many of his apologists on here will have the nerve to read

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Failures-State-Inside-Britains-Coronavirus-ebook/dp/B08G8KYDN6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

and whether it will change any minds?

If its such a failure why is have so many countries included ours included have had their made better, I can remember a time of awful personal hardships and have found that through the years it got better , I look at my children now and think gosh this is a better world ( I agree its far from perfect ) what would you have in its place .

Before capitalism the world was a very poor , war mongering death ridden place, many society's and lives have benefited from it In my humble view does it need reigning in ( yes ) .

The most successful Labour party in my time ( Blair )embraced it , perhaps Labour needs to do the same and create a new visionary shape it in its own to see if that appeals to the electorate as the last shout was abysmal.

I can't see old Joe Biden or China sweeping capitalism away anytime soon either .

[jon1959]

Re: Coronavirus update

Think I read somewhere that Labour were keen to break the big pharma global control up

I'm not sure that would be within the gift of a future Labour government - not unless you believe extreme globalist conspiracy theories. You don't do you?

Labour has certainly got a bag of potential policies for Big Pharma in the UK - although the main focus seems to be maintaining quality and price protection, and regulation, for the NHS through any UK-US trade deal.

Most of the international press provides free PR for Big Pharma - aided by a few loss leader decisions around 'at cost' Covid 19 vaccinations for developing countries. But Big Pharma is still all about profiting from public sector research, outrageous prices for prescription drugs (especially in the USA, but across the world), and promoting opioid addiction!

[Rjk]

Re: Coronavirus update

If its such a failure why is have so many countries included ours included have had their made better, I can remember a time of awful personal hardships and have found that through the years it got better , I look at my children now and think gosh this is a better world ( I agree its far from perfect ) what would you have in its place .

Before capitalism the world was a very poor , war mongering death ridden place, many society's and lives have benefited from it In my humble view does it need reigning in ( yes ) .

The most successful Labour party in my time ( Blair )embraced it , perhaps Labour needs to do the same and create a new visionary shape it in its own to see if that appeals to the electorate as the last shout was abysmal.

I can't see old Joe Biden or China sweeping capitalism away anytime soon either .

I don't think the book is a critique on capitalism more the response to the pandemic.

on capitalism, I heard an Economist on BBC world service the order day (I forget her name) saying some interesting things about capitalisms role in the biggest issues facing the world.
most notably the rapidly increasing inequality in many countries around the world that is almost always followed by unrest.

her solution was to try to get capitalism to work better for us, which surely most people can't disagree too much with?

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

If its such a failure why is have so many countries included ours included have had their made better, I can remember a time of awful personal hardships and have found that through the years it got better , I look at my children now and think gosh this is a better world ( I agree its far from perfect ) what would you have in its place .

Before capitalism the world was a very poor , war mongering death ridden place, many society's and lives have benefited from it In my humble view does it need reigning in ( yes ) .

The most successful Labour party in my time ( Blair )embraced it , perhaps Labour needs to do the same and create a new visionary shape it in its own to see if that appeals to the electorate as the last shout was abysmal.

I can't see old Joe Biden or China sweeping capitalism away anytime soon either .

In Germany before it was unified...In the west if short of bread they'd bake another loaf. In the East they'd cut the loaf into thinner slices

[Rjk]

Re: Coronavirus update

In Germany before it was unified...In the west if short of bread they'd bake another loaf. In the East they'd cut the loaf into thinner slices

Is anyone saying they want to get to a situation like the former Eastern Germany?

You always see this kind of reductio ad absurdum made against anyone suggesting there might be any sort of weakness with unfettered capitalism.
Why not the other way around?
oh you don't like state interference - that means you don't want any state at all - a lawless anarchy like areas of Somalia controlled by pirates.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

If its such a failure why is have so many countries included ours included have had their made better, I can remember a time of awful personal hardships and have found that through the years it got better , I look at my children now and think gosh this is a better world ( I agree its far from perfect ) what would you have in its place .

Before capitalism the world was a very poor , war mongering death ridden place, many society's and lives have benefited from it In my humble view does it need reigning in ( yes ) .

The most successful Labour party in my time ( Blair )embraced it , perhaps Labour needs to do the same and create a new visionary shape it in its own to see if that appeals to the electorate as the last shout was abysmal.

I can't see old Joe Biden or China sweeping capitalism away anytime soon either .

What are you talking about? I post a link to a book called “Failures of State, the inside story of Britain’s Battle with Coronavirus” while also mentioning that Johnson had remarked on the connection between the vaccine, greed and capitalism and you go off on one defending capitalism while finding a way to bring the Labour Party into it, again, - all this in a thread titled “Coronavirus update” ! Are you sure you replied to the right thread?

[blue matt]

Re: Coronavirus update

What are you talking about? I post a link to a book called “Failures of State, the inside story of Britain’s Battle with Coronavirus” while also mentioning that Johnson had remarked on the connection between the vaccine, greed and capitalism and you go off on one defending capitalism while finding a way to bring the Labour Party into it, again, - all this in a thread titled “Coronavirus update” ! Are you sure you replied to the right thread?

Fancy Bringing politics into the " Coronavirus update " thread

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I'm not sure that would be within the gift of a future Labour government - not unless you believe extreme globalist conspiracy theories. You don't do you?

Labour has certainly got a bag of potential policies for Big Pharma in the UK - although the main focus seems to be maintaining quality and price protection, and regulation, for the NHS through any UK-US trade deal.

Most of the international press provides free PR for Big Pharma - aided by a few loss leader decisions around 'at cost' Covid 19 vaccinations for developing countries. But Big Pharma is still all about profiting from public sector research, outrageous prices for prescription drugs (especially in the USA, but across the world), and promoting opioid addiction!

Just to give you some data on the price of prescription medicines, the UK has some of the lowest prices in the world... a few examples of commonly used prescription medicines: Atorvastatin 28 tabs £1.00, Amlodipine 28 tabs £1.00, Ramipril 28 caps £1.15. Big Pharma does not necessarily mean big prices

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Fancy Bringing politics into the " Coronavirus update " thread

I was just at a loss as to how to understand how he arrived where he did from what I had posted - not for the first time, I was baffled by what he said.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

Is anyone saying they want to get to a situation like the former Eastern Germany?

You always see this kind of reductio ad absurdum made against anyone suggesting there might be any sort of weakness with unfettered capitalism.
Why not the other way around?
oh you don't like state interference - that means you don't want any state at all - a lawless anarchy like areas of Somalia controlled by pirates.

West Germany v East (as was) is a good example of successful capitalism compared to extreme socialism.

[Rjk]

Re: Coronavirus update

West Germany v East (as was) is a good example of successful capitalism compared to extreme socialism.

well done for missing my point entirely

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

What are you talking about? I post a link to a book called “Failures of State, the inside story of Britain’s Battle with Coronavirus” while also mentioning that Johnson had remarked on the connection between the vaccine, greed and capitalism and you go off on one defending capitalism while finding a way to bring the Labour Party into it, again, - all this in a thread titled “Coronavirus update” ! Are you sure you replied to the right thread?

That did make me smile.
You of course have never made any remark even remotely political in the 7400+ posts in this thread have you? No, of course not! I didn't think so. hehe:

[life on mars]

Re: Coronavirus update

Can you blame them ??

Its reported that after enduring months of baseless criticism and browbeating from the EU, AstraZeneca now reportedly regret selling their vaccine at cost price as a result of the reputational damage inflicted by European leaders, and wouldn’t replicate the strategy if another pandemic hits.

Speaking on the Today Programme, BBC medical editor Fergus Walsh claimed that multiple senior sources inside AstraZeneca said that in future, the company was unlikely to forego the profits enjoyed by the likes of Pfizer (set to make billions from its $19.50 jab, compared to the $4 tag for AstraZeneca’s) now that the European Commission has smeared the vaccine with claims of blood clotting and low efficacy. Not to mention threatening export controls, and blaming AstraZeneca for their shortfall in vaccine