Casual Messageboard Observation

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

It’s objective of course and I guess like Music…I still prefer stuff from when I was younger and admit that I may be wearing rose tinted glasses.

I think this is the crux of the matter. Lots of older people (and I'm including my age group in that category) seem to have this misty-eyed nostalgia for British football pre-Premier League when in fact it was equally uncompetitive at the top end and was riddled with problems from top to bottom.

Interest in the game is far higher these days. Stadiums are better. Attendances are bigger and more mixed. There are undoubtedly aspects of the game which are not so great, but I genuinely believe most of those who hate the Premier League have forgotten what football in the English pyramid was really like during the Seventies, Eighties and early-Nineties.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

The clubs that threatened to break away if the FA under Bert millichip did not allow the Premier League to form were .....

Liverpool

Everton

United

Arsenal

Spurs

Those were the greedy twats who frogmarched everyone else

If you want to rewrite history then you carry on

1990 Greg Dyke met with the owners of Arsenal , Tottenham , Manchester United , Liverpool and Everton to discuss TV rights and the formation of a break away league

It was those 5 who let the other teams know if they didn't get their way the big 5 would break away

No Oldham representation there

[lardy]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I think this is the crux of the matter. Lots of older people (and I'm including my age group in that category) seem to have this misty-eyed nostalgia for British football pre-Premier League when in fact it was equally uncompetitive at the top end and was riddled with problems from top to bottom.

Interest in the game is far higher these days. Stadiums are better. Attendances are bigger and more mixed. There are undoubtedly aspects of the game which are not so great, but I genuinely believe most of those who hate the Premier League have forgotten what football in the English pyramid was really like during the Seventies, Eighties and early-Nineties.

The Champions League is a good example of this. I regularly see people saying they prefer the old European Cup when it was just a knock-out, but it was hardly competitive at all.

I just picked a random European Cup, Liverpool winning in 1981. Their results were:

1st Round - 11-1
2nd Round - 5-0
Quarters - 6-1
Semis - 1-1 away goals
Final - 1-0

So it seems like it was a stroll to the semis. I reckon it'll be the same for ust about any champions you can find in that era, tough games very rare before at least the quarters. One that came to mind was Forest v Liverpool in a first round game, but Forest won 7-2 and 5-2 in the following rounds.

Whereas nowadays, most of the great matches of the past decade have been CL knockout ties. The competition is set up to help the bigger clubs, I'd agree with critics there, but as a tool for entertainment, it's a success.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

The Champions League is a good example of this. I regularly see people saying they prefer the old European Cup when it was just a knock-out, but it was hardly competitive at all.

I just picked a random European Cup, Liverpool winning in 1981. Their results were:

1st Round - 11-1
2nd Round - 5-0
Quarters - 6-1
Semis - 1-1 away goals
Final - 1-0

So it seems like it was a stroll to the semis. I reckon it'll be the same for ust about any champions you can find in that era, tough games very rare before at least the quarters. One that came to mind was Forest v Liverpool in a first round game, but Forest won 7-2 and 5-2 in the following rounds.

Whereas nowadays, most of the great matches of the past decade have been CL knockout ties. The competition is set up to help the bigger clubs, I'd agree with critics there, but as a tool for entertainment, it's a success.

It's a success for money buying success

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

The Champions League is a good example of this. I regularly see people saying they prefer the old European Cup when it was just a knock-out, but it was hardly competitive at all.

Good stuff.

If we assume Man City will win the Premier League this season, then there will have been seven different sides who have made the top two during the last ten years and four different champions: Man City (6), Chelsea (2), Leicester and Liverpool.

In the ten years before the Premier League was formed, eight different sides had made the top two and there were four different champions: Liverpool (5), Everton (2), Arsenal (2) and Leeds.

Man City look invincible at the moment, but there have been periods in recent history where that looked like it was going to be the case for Man Utd and Chelsea. These things go in cycles. Man Utd haven't won it for a decade and Chelsea aren't even going to make the top ten this season.

[lardy]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

It's a success for money buying success

But is it? It's now very hard to win the CL because there are so many other very good clubs, which is why you get so many ties that have goals galore but are still undecided going into the last 20 minutes. In the 80s, goals galore would probably mean a thrashing.

I don't love it and I don't think it's perfect, but if you pick a random game from the 22-23 CL compared to the 82-83 EC then it's almost certainly going to be a better game. Things like the backpass law and the changes to the offside laws that have made the pitch bigger are reasons for that.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

But is it?

If it was as simple as some like to pretend it is, PSG would have won it by now. Which they haven't. In fact, they've only reached the final once.

[BlueArmy 86]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I think it been a poor champions league this year, but almost every other year the knockouts throw up the best games of football you'll see.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Good stuff.

If we assume Man City will win the Premier League this season, then there will have been seven different sides who have made the top two during the last ten years and four different champions: Man City (6), Chelsea (2), Leicester and Liverpool.

In the ten years before the Premier League was formed, eight different sides had made the top two and there were four different champions: Liverpool (5), Everton (2), Arsenal (2) and Leeds.

Man City look invincible at the moment, but there have been periods in recent history where that looked like it was going to be the case for Man Utd and Chelsea. These things go in cycles. Man Utd haven't won it for a decade and Chelsea aren't even going to make the top ten this season.

You are not quite understanding this

The Premier league wasn't set up to alter the type of teams that would win the league

It was to ensure those in the top clutch were keep more and more money for themselves

Good god

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Man City look special. Testament to what can be achieved with £2 billion, a manager with an offshore account, a suspended 2-year ban from European competition and 115 charges of financial irregularity.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Man City look special. Testament to what can be achieved with £2 billion, a manager with an offshore account, a suspended 2-year ban from European competition and 115 charges of financial irregularity.

And really good football players.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

And really good football players.

Comes with the territory I guess. It brings me on to something I keep meaning to ask - the impression I get is that you're dead against FFP points deductions in the Championship and, presumably elsewhere. Is that right and, if so, why are you not bothered if teams buy their way to success? Not having a go or anything here, I'm just curious.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

And really good football players.

Obtained by all sorts of shady business

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Comes with the territory I guess. It brings me on to something I keep meaning to ask - the impression I get is that you're dead against FFP points deductions in the Championship and, presumably elsewhere. Is that right and, if so, why are you not bothered if teams buy their way to success? Not having a go or anything here, I'm just curious.

Yes, that’s right. I think FFP is utter nonsense and I’m dead against teams being given points deductions for alleged FFP breaches.

Why am I not bothered if teams buy their way to success? Because it’s the way the sport works and has always worked since I’ve been watching it, hence the fact that transfer fees exist, although spending money is obviously never going to guarantee success. It never has and never will.

The utopia of a level playing field is just fiction. Some clubs are big, some are small, some are rich, some are poor. It’s been that way since I started watching football in 1975 and it’ll be that way until the day I die.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

You are not quite understanding this

The Premier league wasn't set up to alter the type of teams that would win the league

It was to ensure those in the top clutch were keep more and more money for themselves

Good god

How many times were Cardiff City on live, national television before the Premier League? There's a thread today about Barnsley v Bolton. Yesterday there was one about Peterborough and the day before that Luton.